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  • Jockey Box Alternative?

    Hello everyone! My husband and I are co-founders of a brew pub, B-52 brewing in Conroe, TX. After setting up jockey boxes at a few beer festivals we got fed up with cumbersome equipment and created something we call QuikTap. It's a portable keg tap, powered by CO2 and is extremely lightweight and portable. Check it out and let me know what you think!

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    We are running a Kickstarter campaign to fund the project http://bitly.com/quiktap which has our product video if you are interested in seeing it in action!

  • #2
    Very nice... but....

    1) The main purpose of a jockey box is to chill the beer. Using a 50' coil box, we get great chilling without having to ice the kegs (extreme temp excepted). Chilling the keg in a bucket of ice works, but changing the keg isn't easy--unlike a jockey box.

    2) That CO2 cylinder looks like a paintball gun can, which can be difficult to get refilled and requires a regular hydrotesting. More expense and trouble than using a 20lb can with a jockey box.

    3) I think this product (or something very similar) already exists.
    Timm Turrentine

    Brewerywright,
    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
    Enterprise. Oregon.

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    • #3
      I not shooting down your concept at all, as I actually really dig the idea. I have used this type of product in the past.
      this one...
      Leland makes one. I think you can get it from Kegworks.com for $225 or so.

      http://www.mrfizz.com/picnictap.html also has had them in the past, but seem to be back ordered.

      also, they can be purchased from different fabricators in China as well. I recently purchased 2 sets of regulators, couplers, and the stainless stick. They work pretty well. the regulators are fine, but the couplers and stick were pretty poor. For pouring, the biggest thing... keep the beer fully iced and have an insulated wrap around the stick to avoid foaming. In the heat of the summer, it will always push out a touch of foam which is no big deal if you know how to pour.

      So are your regulators coming from China? They look similar to mine. I have no issue with Chinese fabricators per se, but I am curious as I may be interested in purchasing your equipment when it's available.

      Best of luck
      Matthew
      ________________
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      Exhibit 'A' Brewing Co.
      Framingham, MA USA

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      • #4
        Very nice... but....

        1) The main purpose of a jockey box is to chill the beer. Using a 50' coil box, we get great chilling without having to ice the kegs (extreme temp excepted). Chilling the keg in a bucket of ice works, but changing the keg isn't easy--unlike a jockey box.
        Yes, if you are needing to chill a warm keg, then a jockey box would be your best solution. However, we do not like to allow our beers to get warm...especially the hoppier styles. One CO2 canister will easily push a full half barrel keg, but with the bulk adapter, you can hook up to as large of a tank as you'd like. With the right setup, kegs are just as easy to change with the bulk adapter. Last weekend we used a low-profile trough with ice going about halfway up the keg. Since the spear draws from the bottom of the keg we had no problems with foam or warm beer. If you were serving beer extremely fast, I could see this as a problem.

        2) That CO2 cylinder looks like a paintball gun can, which can be difficult to get refilled and requires a regular hydrotesting. More expense and trouble than using a 20lb can with a jockey box.
        It is a 12 oz food-grade aluminum can with paintball threading. These tanks are 3AL rated meaning they only need to be hydrotested every 5 years which is the same as any aluminum CO2 tank you would be using. Also, replacement tanks are cheap enough to simply replace them as it is barely cost effective to re-certify them. Same thing applies to your 5-20lb aluminum tanks. It costs around 15-20 bucks to hydro test, then add shipping and it's almost the same price to replace them. Most sporting goods stores, academy, dick's sporting goods, welding supply shop, gas company, or paintball shop can refill them for around $2-3 or less. We have a 600lb bulk tank and a 50lb siphon tank that we hooked up a fill station allowing us to refill whenever we need for practically no cost.

        3) I think this product (or something very similar) already exists.
        Yes something similar exists, but without all of the improvements and much lower quality parts. Their tanks cost way more, are not refillable, and hold less than a quarter of the CO2. You would need two tanks at $10 a piece to push a full half barrel. We use Perlick 650ss flow-control faucets ($55 a piece) to allow serving at higher pressures. With the other existing products, you have to purge all of the head pressure and serve at 1-2 psi and would still have foaming issues. We can literally serve root beer at 30psi without issues. All other draft parts except the regulator are sourced from Krome Dispense.

        At our brewery, we have a 20 tap commercial draft system, two jockey boxes, and we still use the QuikTaps on a daily basis. For pilot batches that we don't want to put on our tap wall, we simply leave a QuikTap on it in our cooler. Or if we get a larger crowd and need to cut down the lines at our taproom, we simply wheel out a few kegs and serve with the quiktap instead of going through the hassle of setting up, breaking down, and cleaning a jockey box. If you have any other questions or concerns, I'd be more than happy to answer.

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        • #5
          I not shooting down your concept at all, as I actually really dig the idea. I have used this type of product in the past.
          this one...
          Leland makes one. I think you can get it from Kegworks.com for $225 or so.

          http://www.mrfizz.com/picnictap.html also has had them in the past, but seem to be back ordered.

          also, they can be purchased from different fabricators in China as well. I recently purchased 2 sets of regulators, couplers, and the stainless stick. They work pretty well. the regulators are fine, but the couplers and stick were pretty poor. For pouring, the biggest thing... keep the beer fully iced and have an insulated wrap around the stick to avoid foaming. In the heat of the summer, it will always push out a touch of foam which is no big deal if you know how to pour.

          So are your regulators coming from China? They look similar to mine. I have no issue with Chinese fabricators per se, but I am curious as I may be interested in purchasing your equipment when it's available.

          Best of luck
          Matthew
          As far as I know, the Mr. Fizz is the same thing as leland gas, maybe just under a different DBA. Right now, there is a special for the first 20 QuikTap orders get a free Perlick 650ss flow-control faucet for $197. With flow-control, we can serve without ANY foaming issues whatsoever, even on the first pour on a hot day. You just have to turn the flow-control most of the way down and slowly crank it up. As long as you are pouring relatively frequently, foaming should be fine. If the keg sits for a while, you just have to crank down the flow-control again and repeat the process. To completely eliminate any foaming issues, we are considering raising the price a bit to recover the added costs of fitting all quiktaps with a flow-control. For now, early orders will get the upgrade at the lower price. If you are interested in purchasing soon, the first 40 orders will be shipped before Christmas.

          All of the parts except the regulator and flow-control faucets come from Krome Dispense. So far the quality on everything has been great. Everything is very sturdy, and you can replace all of the draft parts with standard parts as needed. Want to serve a euro keg? Just swap out the coupler.

          The regulators are coming from China and it took a long time to find a supplier who could make them at low pressure. I believe the leland regulators come from the same supplier. There is simply no company that can even compete with China for gas regulators in terms of quality and price. We would prefer not to reveal the name of the company, but I can say that they are a huge reputable manufacturer specializing in all kinds of pneumatics. We've been testing for months and haven't had a single problem with the regulators.

          If you have any other questions, please let us know. Cheers!

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          • #6
            Downside: Kegs float as they empty


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            • #7
              Originally posted by dudasaj View Post
              Downside: Kegs float as they empty


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              True, but there's definitely a few work arounds. We prefer using Super coolers that hold ice so well that it is never an issue when we use them (which I totally recommend for anyone serving in hot weather, its pretty much the yeti of keg tubs). If we don't have a super cooler we drain some of the water to where there is minimal floating. Or we put 3 slims in one trashcan to where they stay in place.

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              • #8
                Interesting but the problem for us is that there are no local places to get the tank filled. We would have to go the full route of installing and being certified on a filling station.

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                • #9
                  We have 2 of the Leland models and love them with one draw back, you HAVE to be pouring beer constantly. If you stop for 5-10 minutes the riser warms up and beer foams. If we can figure out a way to chill the riser tube we are going to use them for everything we take one or 2 kegs to.
                  BTW to any one who has the Leland unit, you can convert it to a bulk tank by connecting a flare to barb adapter where the bottle screws in.


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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by mswebb View Post
                    Interesting but the problem for us is that there are no local places to get the tank filled. We would have to go the full route of installing and being certified on a filling station.
                    I'm not sure what the laws are in Canada, but most states in the US do not require a license to refill paintball tanks. At our brewery we have our Co2 supplier drop off an extra 50 lb siphon tank and we can refill for practically zero cost. If you don't want to refill them yourself, most welding supply shops will do it. You can even get them filled at most academy sports stores. They usually cost around $3 to refill.

                    Originally posted by spencer_schaub View Post
                    We have 2 of the Leland models and love them with one draw back, you HAVE to be pouring beer constantly. If you stop for 5-10 minutes the riser warms up and beer foams. If we can figure out a way to chill the riser tube we are going to use them for everything we take one or 2 kegs to.
                    BTW to any one who has the Leland unit, you can convert it to a bulk tank by connecting a flare to barb adapter where the bottle screws in.
                    I think we can help you with the riser issue. We bought a few of the Leland taps and ran into the same problem. The foaming issue and expensive disposable co2 cartridges were the main reasons we designed QuikTap in the first place. To fix the foaming issue, all you need to do is swap out the faucet to a flow-control faucet. Whenever it's been a while since your last pour, you just turn down the flow-control to just a trickle and pour out the warm beer. There should only be about a half ounce of warm beer in the rod so as soon as that's out of the way, it'll start pouring perfectly again.

                    I've also seen adapter pieces that allow you to convert the leland regs to a paintball tank. However, I wouldn't recommend using any old paintball tank. There's a very good chance that soot and machining oils are left behind from the manufacturer. QuikTap brand tanks are cleaned out from the inside and are food grade.

                    We've had quite a few requests to retrofit Leland taps to the same setup as QuikTap, but it usually turns out better to just sell the tap and buy a new one. To do so, you'd need a Perlick flow-control faucet ($50) a regulator adapter ($15-20) and a new Co2 tank ($25) Adding it all up would cost around $90-$100. I've personally sold several Leland taps for at least $150 on ebay. You can buy a brand new all SS QuikTap for roughly the same price.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by BeerJessica View Post
                      I'm not sure what the laws are in Canada, but most states in the US do not require a license to refill paintball tanks. At our brewery we have our Co2 supplier drop off an extra 50 lb siphon tank and we can refill for practically zero cost. If you don't want to refill them yourself, most welding supply shops will do it. You can even get them filled at most academy sports stores. They usually cost around $3 to refill.


                      I think we can help you with the riser issue. We bought a few of the Leland taps and ran into the same problem. The foaming issue and expensive disposable co2 cartridges were the main reasons we designed QuikTap in the first place. To fix the foaming issue, all you need to do is swap out the faucet to a flow-control faucet. Whenever it's been a while since your last pour, you just turn down the flow-control to just a trickle and pour out the warm beer. There should only be about a half ounce of warm beer in the rod so as soon as that's out of the way, it'll start pouring perfectly again.

                      I've also seen adapter pieces that allow you to convert the leland regs to a paintball tank. However, I wouldn't recommend using any old paintball tank. There's a very good chance that soot and machining oils are left behind from the manufacturer. QuikTap brand tanks are cleaned out from the inside and are food grade.

                      We've had quite a few requests to retrofit Leland taps to the same setup as QuikTap, but it usually turns out better to just sell the tap and buy a new one. To do so, you'd need a Perlick flow-control faucet ($50) a regulator adapter ($15-20) and a new Co2 tank ($25) Adding it all up would cost around $90-$100. I've personally sold several Leland taps for at least $150 on ebay. You can buy a brand new all SS QuikTap for roughly the same price.
                      We actually put flow controls on everything we own, the issue is more with our bartenders and front of house refusing to listen when we tell them how to use them...
                      Next event I use them at, I am going to put tight fitting pipe insulation around the riser to keep heat loss to a minimum, which is possible with swapping the co2 "bulb" out for a proper 10lb tank (the Leland tank its self gets in the way other wise). Its a little redundant to run the reg on the Leland and on the tank, but the ability to dial up and down for the different beers, if we have 2, is kind of nice.


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                      • #12
                        Every 5-10 pour yourself a beer


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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by dmartin View Post
                          Every 5-10 pour yourself a beer


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                          Touche', best answer yet!


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