Brewmaster Shortcut

[flbrewer1]

How would someone eventually get a brewmaster role or have enough training to operate their own brewery commercially while skipping the cellerman/ asst. brewer grind? Is there any worthwhile Siebel or other training that a homebrewer could attend and over time be qualified?

[WWSean]

Personally I don't feel there is a quick way to become a "real" brew master. This come from years of brewing. You can take courses which help and for some people feel that's all you need but it's the experience that makes you a brew master. I've lucked out and started with a company in the early years. I've become their head brewer but I don't call myself a brew master because I'm not. Maybe in 10 years lol.

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[jebzter]

I wouldn't hire you without experience, as a head brewer you should be fully qualified to operate and train any person on any of the equipment used during the complete brewing process. Start to finish, school is great, but without experience I wouldn't put you into such an important position. Thats just my opinion, but if you were applying here and I had seen this post, I probably wouldn't even read your resume because I bet you'll take shortcuts on other things. Just my two cents. If you want to get some experience, go find a brewery that is willing to let you shadow the brewer so you can see what goes into it, but take the time to learn everything yo can from the cellar to the raw ingredients.

[WWSean]

100% agree jebzter. I have someone shadowing me right now. He doesn't get paid but he is learning lots. Experience is key. You can't shortcut brewing.

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[Ted Briggs]

Surgeon Shortcut?

I was wondering if there was a quick way to become a surgeon? I don't mind going to school, but I just want to start cutting people open without all that tedious residencies and training.

[flbrewer1]

Brewmaster Shortcut

I was wondering if there was a quick way to become a surgeon? I don't mind going to school, but I just want to start cutting people open without all that tedious residencies and training.

I should clarify...it's not the time or hard work I'm trying to skip. In my case, I just want to try and avoid getting paid a very low salary for years. In my case, I've been working in a career for 15 years or so, and have a family. I'm guessing the majority of people go down this road much sooner in life.

Surely there must be merit for Seibel training.


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[WWSean]

This the hard part of brewing as a job. The pay can be pretty bad in the beginning and really it all depend on how much knowledge you have. So yes I would think education will help but not to get you to brew master status.

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[GlacierBrewing]

How would someone eventually get a brewmaster role or have enough training to operate their own brewery commercially while skipping the cellerman/ asst. brewer grind? Is there any worthwhile Siebel or other training that a homebrewer could attend and over time be qualified?

You can skip the "cellarman/ asst. brewer grind" and try to operate your own brewery. However, you will not be qualified and it will become apparent. The first brewery I worked in (as a keg washer & bottling grunt) had a couple of brothers as owners. One was always traveling as the salesman and the other managed the business. The second gave himself the title of "Brewmaster" of the brewery even though he had never brewed a single batch and could not do any of the jobs in the brewery except load bottles into the bottler. He felt that his owning the brewery made him the Brewmaster. He had to employ people to do all the jobs in the place as he would walk around feeling important.
If you hang the shiny title of "Brewmaster" around your neck, you need to be able to master the brew: through all the phases of the process including cleaning/sanitation, mashing, sparging, brewing, knockout, pitching, fermentation, crashing, transfer/filter, carbonation, racking/packaging, raw materials/finished product inventories, even product education for customers and staff, not to forget government required paperwork, marketing, brand management, and on and on......
To label and market yourself as a "Brewmaster" when you don't have the necessary skills will only shortcut your future career and brewery. Remember the old programming adage: GIGO Garbage In Garbage Out.
You need to work the jobs to learn and develop the skills and that just takes time.

Prost!
Dave

[Bainbridge]

I just want to try and avoid getting paid a very low salary for years.

Haha, you are in the wrong business...

But FWIW: I would hire someone who has a year of being reasonably useful as a cellarmonkey in my or another brewery versus a recent brewing school grad with little or no practical experience. So if you think about the time and money spent on school, though the extra knowledge is great, the economic return might not be there. I want to know that you are ok doing the boring, crappy jobs, of which there are an endless supply, for hours upon hours. If you can be trusted at that, you can be trusted to do more interesting and complex things. And the whole time you're picking little things up as you go along.

Or you could always just go start a nanobrewery and call yourself Brewmaster.

[Bbump22]

I should clarify...it's not the time or hard work I'm trying to skip. In my case, I just want to try and avoid getting paid a very low salary for years. In my case, I've been working in a career for 15 years or so, and have a family. I'm guessing the majority of people go down this road much sooner in life.

Surely there must be merit for Seibel training.


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Personally, I would hire someone with experience over someone with just Siebel experience...hands on experience trumps all. You'll come across a million scenarios in brewing that Siebel doesn't cover in their text books. Also, nobody should get into brewing if they think they'll make good money. You're looking at minimum wage or just above it no matter where you start, with or without Siebel.

[ChesterBrew]

Personally, I would hire someone with experience over someone with just Siebel experience...hands on experience trumps all. You'll come across a million scenarios in brewing that Siebel doesn't cover in their text books. Also, nobody should get into brewing if they think they'll make good money. You're looking at minimum wage or just above it no matter where you start, with or without Siebel.

I agree with this 100%, and have taken both Concise and Start Your Own Brewery courses at Siebel.

I also agree 100% that the industry as a whole does not pay well compared to other industries. Most people doing it successfully for a long period of time do so because they love the work, as un-glamorous as 95% of it is. If there's a brewery near you, get a part-time job in their tasting room and/or giving tours. You'll get insight into the entire process and also firsthand experience with customers... both are essential if you have an interest in a direction in management.

The key to making a small fortune in brewing is to start with a large fortune.

[mbrown61]

Don't know if anyone is going to see this but I have a question for anyone who'd like to answer. I understand what all of you are saying but what if the market for breweries in the city that you live in is very small and there is little to no chance of getting in at any of the breweries? Im moving from Nevada to either NY or Chicago and am planning on going to Siebel later this year. I do not like to take short cuts and I want to learn everything there is about brewing and beer but Ive come to the conclusion that I am not going to get any experience where I currently live. My plan is to keep homebrewing, learning everything I can myself, attend Siebel and hope that a brewery in one of those two places gives me a shot when the program is over. What do you guys think? Do not mind brutally honest opinions lol.

[jbell71464]

Don't know if anyone is going to see this but I have a question for anyone who'd like to answer. I understand what all of you are saying but what if the market for breweries in the city that you live in is very small and there is little to no chance of getting in at any of the breweries? Im moving from Nevada to either NY or Chicago and am planning on going to Siebel later this year. I do not like to take short cuts and I want to learn everything there is about brewing and beer but Ive come to the conclusion that I am not going to get any experience where I currently live. My plan is to keep homebrewing, learning everything I can myself, attend Siebel and hope that a brewery in one of those two places gives me a shot when the program is over. What do you guys think? Do not mind brutally honest opinions lol.

If you are going to move to Chicago, go to Siebel AND spend time working at a brewery. The industry is really blowing up in the Chicago area. If this is really what you want, no reason you cannot do both. Sure you will have no free time and won't see your family while you are doing it, but try starting your own brewery sometime. Double the headaches, time and sacrifice. Siebel will teach you theory, but NOTHING can replace experience. So start in a tap room, volunteer to wash kegs, get some time as a cellarman. You will be glad you did.
Just my 2cents

[GlacierBrewing]

Don't know if anyone is going to see this but I have a question for anyone who'd like to answer. I understand what all of you are saying but what if the market for breweries in the city that you live in is very small and there is little to no chance of getting in at any of the breweries? Im moving from Nevada to either NY or Chicago and am planning on going to Siebel later this year. I do not like to take short cuts and I want to learn everything there is about brewing and beer but Ive come to the conclusion that I am not going to get any experience where I currently live. My plan is to keep homebrewing, learning everything I can myself, attend Siebel and hope that a brewery in one of those two places gives me a shot when the program is over. What do you guys think? Do not mind brutally honest opinions lol.

Hi mbrown61,
You don't need to set your sites on going from experienced homebrewer to hired on as the Brewmaster. I suggest you seek an entry level job in a brewery or brewpub. Even volunteer. It is all about "what do you know how to do". It is not about the title. I have been working in breweries since 1993 in every position from toilet unplugger to brewer to brewery manager. I have never liked being called "Brewmaster" or "Master Brewer". I am the brewer, I make the beer, I wrangle the yeast (sounds like a country song!).
You need to gain practical experience in an operating brewery doing all the jobs that need to be done. With that experience will come the confidence. I'm not talking about your confidence, but some future brewery boss who will see your practical experience and THEY will have confidence in you to take the reins of production. I know in my own brewery, it is always interesting to have someone brew solo their first time. Sometimes a little unnerving!
Shoot me an email if you'd like to talk with me further or if I'm not making myself clear enough: info AT glacierbrewing DOT com

Prost!
Dave

[mbrown61]

Appreciate it jbell71464. If I could do both I'd be moving to Chicago tomorrow lol. I am originally from San Diego but I didn't decide to pursue this path until 4 years after I moved to Vegas. Should have never left!! Would have made things a bit easier probably!