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  • Kettle Cleaning.

    We just switched to Spartan Chemicals for our caustic and acid.

    We were having issues getting our kettle clean post boil. We hadn't been getting the baked on proteins off the side wall and kettle floor.

    What is the recommended cip cycle? I've seen several different sop and I am looking for the best balance of efficiency and effectiveness.

    Only used the caustic twice. 1st time just caustic then cold water rinse. Second time was an acid wash followed by a caustic wash then a final cold water rinse.

    I've seen several recommendations and just was hoping for what seems to work thw best in action not theory.

    Chris



    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

  • #2
    Caustic with oxidizer, circulate through the HEX for 20 min, then through the kettle spray ball for 30. I keep the floor jackets in the kettle partially open the whole time to keep the temperature of the cleaning solution above 160F, this temperature seems to be the sweet spot as doing it at a cooler temp leaves residue. I just finish with a cold water rinse and then run acid every 5th cleaning cycle or so. This gets our kettle spotlessly clean everywhere except the steam jackets, which are always going to have a little bit of mineral residue unless you run acid every time to get the beer stone off, but that really isn't necessary.

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    • #3
      Run your acid cycle first this will remove the minerals that the proteins are hiding behind then a hot caustic wash if its real bad I might add a 1/4 cup of bleach. This is a good oxidizer and wont harm SS as long as you dont go crazy with it. Dont forget you need to do the occasional passifaction to keep it nice.

      Now with that being said I dont do this cleaning all the time most times its just the caustic wash then at the end of the week or if we get the rare day that we are not brewing I will run the full cycle like I described above
      Mike Eme
      Brewmaster

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      • #4
        Check what chelating agent your caustic has.
        If it has anything but EDTA, change caustic or add EDTA.

        We use caustic with extra EDTA, at around 80c for 25-30 minutes. Never needed to use acid once for our internal boiler or the rest of the kettle.

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        • #5
          Which Comes First?

          My big question is do protein soils cover mineral deposits in the kettle or is it the other way around?

          I have always run a caustic loop with an oxidizer @~160°F for 20 minutes

          This is followed by a rinse with cold water then a hot water loop @160-170°F for 10 minutes to remove residual caustic.

          Finally another cold rinse and then right before the kettle is used I run an acid sanitizer loop to sanitize everything followed by a final cold rinse.

          It's best to CIP your HEX first as that is what needs to be absolutely clean and receive all the cleaning power of the caustic before it is soiled by the kettle.

          The cold rinses I do in between caustic and sanitizer are at the mercy of city water temperature. This means in the winter my rinse water could be ~60°F and spraying this into a still hot kettle could stress the steel. Not sure if anyone has advice on this.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by SPace View Post
            My big question is do protein soils cover mineral deposits in the kettle or is it the other way around?

            I have always run a caustic loop with an oxidizer @~160°F for 20 minutes

            This is followed by a rinse with cold water then a hot water loop @160-170°F for 10 minutes to remove residual caustic.

            Finally another cold rinse and then right before the kettle is used I run an acid sanitizer loop to sanitize everything followed by a final cold rinse.

            It's best to CIP your HEX first as that is what needs to be absolutely clean and receive all the cleaning power of the caustic before it is soiled by the kettle.

            The cold rinses I do in between caustic and sanitizer are at the mercy of city water temperature. This means in the winter my rinse water could be ~60°F and spraying this into a still hot kettle could stress the steel. Not sure if anyone has advice on this.
            My experience is it could be both but if you run a caustic first it wont do anything to the minerals covering the protein thus the reason when its time for the "big clean" I run acid first then caustic. I have a caustic with beerstone remover that I use on my kegs and they are virtually spotless inside. I dont do the hot water loop to remove any residual caustic and I have not had any issues and while I am "confessing" I have always washed the kettle first then run it thru the HEX. Done this for almost 15 years now without an issue but what you said does make more sense
            Mike Eme
            Brewmaster

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            • #7
              Originally posted by beerguy1 View Post
              My experience is it could be both but if you run a caustic first it wont do anything to the minerals covering the protein
              That's what the EDTA is for. It does magic for mineral deposits.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by grnis View Post
                That's what the EDTA is for. It does magic for mineral deposits.
                Never heard of it I will have to look into it THX
                Mike Eme
                Brewmaster

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                • #9
                  I use gluconated caustic, it also does an amazing job at removing minerals.

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                  • #10
                    So far the Spartan stuff is great. We were using berko. I've cut my fermenter cleaning time in half without having to manually clean anything. Crap out of the HX is more than I expected, so it seems we made a good call. Thanks for the advice.

                    Chris

                    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by jebzter View Post
                      I use gluconated caustic, it also does an amazing job at removing minerals.
                      What specific product are you using? We've been using Five Star LCC#1 for a couple years now. It's a gluconated caustic. Not sure what it's chelated with.

                      Don't really have anything to compare it to. Works ok I guess.

                      I've tried running acid in the kettle before caustic like many in here recommend but get better results running acid after caustic. Not sure why but kettle is much shinier and free of white stuff when we run acid last. Kettle is direct fire FWIW. We have very soft water but we get a lot of white mineral looking residue after a caustic cycle in the kettle once it dries. Yes we rinse thoroughly. We don't get this residue in fermenters. Just the kettle. Acid after caustic gets rid of it. We use quite a bit of calcium in our mash since our water is so soft.

                      I would love to be able to get the kettle shiny and spotless with just one cip cycle though rather than having to alway run caustic & acid.
                      Last edited by d_striker; 02-03-2016, 02:51 AM.

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                      • #12
                        http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1....tb01880.x/pdf <--- an old article about brewery uses of caustic with EDTA.

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                        • #13
                          We use the chem station 50144. At 170-180F CIP on our tanks are done in 10 min, the kettle takes a bit longer with the heavier protein soils.

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