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Thread: Brewtan B

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    AUS
    Posts
    155

    Brewtan B

    Hi there,

    Does anyone have experience with Brewtan B?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Plainwell, MI, USA
    Posts
    93
    I would like some info on this, too. Some of my beers are slower sellers, and we don't have enough cold storage for our beer, so some kegs can be in our cellar (which isn't that cool in temperature, especially in the summertime) for a few months before being used. Nothing is spoiling or "bad," but I can tell by the end of a batch that it isn't as fresh and vibrant as it once was. I am wondering if this could help out with those last few kegs.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Florence/Huntsville, Alabama
    Posts
    565
    First I have heard of it, sounds intriguing. Would be interested in opinions as well.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Plainwell, MI, USA
    Posts
    93

    My early experiences

    So shortly after my post I decided that since no one seemed to want to chime in (or hadn't tried it), I'd have to do the experimentation myself. I've done a handful of beers with this in both the mash and the lauter, and the first ones are just starting to come online, so these are early first impressions.

    I created what is becoming my SOP from trial and error based off of the instructions from the manufacturer, the instructions from WYeast (which is where I purchased it from, and which, for some reason, offers a different set of instructions), and advice from a handful of (mostly home-) brewers from various blogs I've read.

    To address a couple of claims that the product makes:
    --> You'll get a better yield from your lautertun - I have found a possible, very, VERY slight increase in utilization. If it is there, it is in the ballpark of 0.001-0.002. I'll have to do a few more batches to really see a trend.
    --> You'll have better shelf-life - I cannot speak to this yet.
    --> You'll have a tighter trub cone in the whirlpool - as a complicated answer to this, it can make it better or worse. It seems to be way worse if you add it at the recommended 10 minutes out from F/O, at least in my case, where I would then have already used Whorlflock at 20 (instead of my usual 10). If you use it at the 20 minute point (before any other kettle clairifiers at the 10 minute point), it seems to be neutral or make a slight improvement, and a substantial improvement on beers that have a lot of hop pellet matter (yea, more IPA!).
    --> You'll get cleaner wort - Again, slightly complicated. I used it as per directions, and it was milky, but when I added it before the whorlflock, the wort was very, very clear, and the grain flavors really popped. (The wort that started milky did end up making a clean beer, but I can't compare it to a standard, because it was a seasonal I've never done before).
    --> You'll get a cleaner beer - I'm not ready to give this a real evaluation, yet. The beers that have come online are ones that I haven't brewed before. I will give my reaction in a few weeks once the batches of my regular brews start coming online.
    --> You'll get malt and hop flavors that really "pop" - Again, I will address this when my regular brews come online.

    My SOP so far:
    I add 8 grams/bbl in the mash before I dough-in.
    I add 5 grams/bbl in the boil 20 minutes before FO.
    I add Servomyces & Whorlflock 10 minutes before FO.

    Another thing I will mention:
    It says to mix the product with water before adding it to the wort. NO! Seriously, don't. Once water hits it it turns to cement. Warm, cold, doesn't matter. I just sprinkle it on top, and it easily mixes in. This was a hard-learned lesson, because it stuck like cement to the measuring cup, which had to be soaked in PBW for about 20 minutes before I could really get the stuff off.

    I will update this thread more as I get more experience with this stuff, especially with my beer as it ages.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    AUS
    Posts
    155
    Hi blonberg,

    Thank you for your detailed response. In the end I did exactly what you did and jumped in to try it for myself. I made a few mistakes at the start and wished the manufacturer was a little more clear on how to use it!

    From my understanding, Brewtan B is very selective on certain haze forming proteins, where Whirlfloc selects more broadly. I use Brewtan at 5 min before KO and Whirlfloc at 2 min. Brewtan does not like to get water added to it, instead, take warm water and add the Brewtan to it. Let it sit for 5 min and you will see it go from an opaque colour to a tee like colour.

    We get good cold brake and crystal clear beer witout filtration and Biofine. Our beer has good colloidal stability. I have not seen any improvement in kettle break.

    Cheers

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Plainwell, MI, USA
    Posts
    93
    Quote Originally Posted by Gbbc View Post
    I use Brewtan at 5 min before KO and Whirlfloc at 2 min.
    So I know a lot of these products specify that they should be used so close to FO. Is there a reason for that? Any hot break that is formed should be insoluble. Yes? I usually do 20 and 10 because these are common points where I do hop additions, and I just add the clarifiers and nutrients to the hops when I'm measuring in the morning. Saves time and mental space (for timing) and containers I have to clean up. Not a great excuse, but I don't think I'm just being lazy... I don't know.

    Is there a benefit from adding these so close to FO that I'm unaware of, or negative results adding them earlier?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    AUS
    Posts
    155
    Quote Originally Posted by blonberg View Post
    So I know a lot of these products specify that they should be used so close to FO. Is there a reason for that? Any hot break that is formed should be insoluble. Yes? I usually do 20 and 10 because these are common points where I do hop additions, and I just add the clarifiers and nutrients to the hops when I'm measuring in the morning. Saves time and mental space (for timing) and containers I have to clean up. Not a great excuse, but I don't think I'm just being lazy... I don't know.

    Is there a benefit from adding these so close to FO that I'm unaware of, or negative results adding them earlier?
    I don't know the science behind it, I'm just following "some" of the manufacturer's instructions. Maybe boiling for longer might denature some enzymes?

    Cheers

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Amsterdam
    Posts
    10
    Hi, were there any updates to this? Are you still using brewtan? Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by blonberg View Post
    So shortly after my post I decided that since no one seemed to want to chime in (or hadn't tried it), I'd have to do the experimentation myself. I've done a handful of beers with this in both the mash and the lauter, and the first ones are just starting to come online, so these are early first impressions.

    I created what is becoming my SOP from trial and error based off of the instructions from the manufacturer, the instructions from WYeast (which is where I purchased it from, and which, for some reason, offers a different set of instructions), and advice from a handful of (mostly home-) brewers from various blogs I've read.

    To address a couple of claims that the product makes:
    --> You'll get a better yield from your lautertun - I have found a possible, very, VERY slight increase in utilization. If it is there, it is in the ballpark of 0.001-0.002. I'll have to do a few more batches to really see a trend.
    --> You'll have better shelf-life - I cannot speak to this yet.
    --> You'll have a tighter trub cone in the whirlpool - as a complicated answer to this, it can make it better or worse. It seems to be way worse if you add it at the recommended 10 minutes out from F/O, at least in my case, where I would then have already used Whorlflock at 20 (instead of my usual 10). If you use it at the 20 minute point (before any other kettle clairifiers at the 10 minute point), it seems to be neutral or make a slight improvement, and a substantial improvement on beers that have a lot of hop pellet matter (yea, more IPA!).
    --> You'll get cleaner wort - Again, slightly complicated. I used it as per directions, and it was milky, but when I added it before the whorlflock, the wort was very, very clear, and the grain flavors really popped. (The wort that started milky did end up making a clean beer, but I can't compare it to a standard, because it was a seasonal I've never done before).
    --> You'll get a cleaner beer - I'm not ready to give this a real evaluation, yet. The beers that have come online are ones that I haven't brewed before. I will give my reaction in a few weeks once the batches of my regular brews start coming online.
    --> You'll get malt and hop flavors that really "pop" - Again, I will address this when my regular brews come online.

    My SOP so far:
    I add 8 grams/bbl in the mash before I dough-in.
    I add 5 grams/bbl in the boil 20 minutes before FO.
    I add Servomyces & Whorlflock 10 minutes before FO.

    Another thing I will mention:
    It says to mix the product with water before adding it to the wort. NO! Seriously, don't. Once water hits it it turns to cement. Warm, cold, doesn't matter. I just sprinkle it on top, and it easily mixes in. This was a hard-learned lesson, because it stuck like cement to the measuring cup, which had to be soaked in PBW for about 20 minutes before I could really get the stuff off.

    I will update this thread more as I get more experience with this stuff, especially with my beer as it ages.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Plainwell, MI, USA
    Posts
    93
    Yes, I'm still using it after all of these months. I'll go back over my perceptions of the claims:

    --> You'll get a better yield from your lautertun - I have not experienced this.

    --> You'll have better shelf-life - This is the reason that I'm still using it. After a few months of cellaring, you notice a big difference. Oxidation is less, and those black licorice notes that I find some really dark beers begin to exhibit after months of age are very much held in check. Hop flavors seem crisper over time, as well.

    --> You'll have a tighter trub cone in the whirlpool - I have not experienced this.

    --> You'll get cleaner wort - As long as you use it well before any other kettle finings, it has seemed to be true, though I wouldn't use it for a clarifier if it didn't help aide in shelf life. It isn't that good. I add it to the boil 20 minutes out, and then add my proper finings 10 minutes out.

    --> You'll get a cleaner beer - I have had clearer beer since using the product, yes. Not a huge improvement, but it is there. See above.

    --> You'll get malt and hop flavors that really "pop" - Malt does seem to pop, and comes across as a little sweeter (not in a bad way). I like the effect, generally, and I find it does little to effect the hop flavor or aroma (save for keeping it truer, longer).


    Overall, I'm using it in all of my beers except one, my cream ale. I have a 3bbl system with 6bbl fermenters. 6bbl of my cream ale lasts only about 3-4 weeks, so there is no point in using it, IMO. The clarification isn't worth the price, and a cream ale is already so sweet and ripe with all the corn in there that I see no reason for the expense or effort.

    Big note: if you do you use product, do make sure to add it to liquid, and not the other way around. It mixes in well, but becomes cement if you add water or wort to it.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Amsterdam
    Posts
    10
    Thanks so much for the update!

    It sounds really encouraging, I'm experimenting now with some small homebrew batches.

    Regarding your shelf life and hop character, can I ask are you making IPAs or very hoppy styles? If so how long are you still happy with the hop character compared to before?

    Quote Originally Posted by blonberg View Post
    Yes, I'm still using it after all of these months. I'll go back over my perceptions of the claims:

    --> You'll get a better yield from your lautertun - I have not experienced this.

    --> You'll have better shelf-life - This is the reason that I'm still using it. After a few months of cellaring, you notice a big difference. Oxidation is less, and those black licorice notes that I find some really dark beers begin to exhibit after months of age are very much held in check. Hop flavors seem crisper over time, as well.

    --> You'll have a tighter trub cone in the whirlpool - I have not experienced this.

    --> You'll get cleaner wort - As long as you use it well before any other kettle finings, it has seemed to be true, though I wouldn't use it for a clarifier if it didn't help aide in shelf life. It isn't that good. I add it to the boil 20 minutes out, and then add my proper finings 10 minutes out.

    --> You'll get a cleaner beer - I have had clearer beer since using the product, yes. Not a huge improvement, but it is there. See above.

    --> You'll get malt and hop flavors that really "pop" - Malt does seem to pop, and comes across as a little sweeter (not in a bad way). I like the effect, generally, and I find it does little to effect the hop flavor or aroma (save for keeping it truer, longer).


    Overall, I'm using it in all of my beers except one, my cream ale. I have a 3bbl system with 6bbl fermenters. 6bbl of my cream ale lasts only about 3-4 weeks, so there is no point in using it, IMO. The clarification isn't worth the price, and a cream ale is already so sweet and ripe with all the corn in there that I see no reason for the expense or effort.

    Big note: if you do you use product, do make sure to add it to liquid, and not the other way around. It mixes in well, but becomes cement if you add water or wort to it.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Plainwell, MI, USA
    Posts
    93
    Quote Originally Posted by 438 View Post
    Regarding your shelf life and hop character, can I ask are you making IPAs or very hoppy styles? If so how long are you still happy with the hop character compared to before?

    That's hard to say... my IPA goes quite quickly as do my Pale Ale and most of my hoppy specials. My only 'evidence' would probably come from my DIPA, which I've brewed both before and after the addition of Brewtan B. It usually takes about 4 months to go through a batch, but this summer it has been moving pretty slow. I'm at about 5.5 months with a keg left (so probably two weeks to go). I normally don't like to go that long... but, here we are.

    Obviously a lot of the the really fresh aroma is done, but compared with what I'd expect from 4 months of age that I regularly see, the hop taste is fresher at this point. Probably more like 3 months. So, that's an improvement for sure.

    I find that the biggest benefits come to my stout, which didn't age all that well (lots of black licorice and a bit of oxidation coming with time), and now it is a champ. Really fresh months out.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    23

    Careful not to break up the flocks.

    Quote Originally Posted by blonberg View Post
    So I know a lot of these products specify that they should be used so close to FO. Is there a reason for that? Any hot break that is formed should be insoluble. Yes? I usually do 20 and 10 because these are common points where I do hop additions, and I just add the clarifiers and nutrients to the hops when I'm measuring in the morning. Saves time and mental space (for timing) and containers I have to clean up. Not a great excuse, but I don't think I'm just being lazy... I don't know.

    Is there a benefit from adding these so close to FO that I'm unaware of, or negative results adding them earlier?
    I believe the reason for adding the flocculants close to knock out is that the physical rigours of the boil could cause the flocks to break up again and then they will settle less well. It's not about them being soluble or insoluble as such. Big particles settle better. That's my understanding anyway.

    I think this is also relevant when thinking about transferring the wort from kettle to whirlpool. A violent transfer can break up the big flocks.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Plainwell, MI, USA
    Posts
    93
    Quote Originally Posted by UpsidedownA View Post
    I believe the reason for adding the flocculants close to knock out is that the physical rigours of the boil could cause the flocks to break up again and then they will settle less well. It's not about them being soluble or insoluble as such. Big particles settle better. That's my understanding anyway.

    I think this is also relevant when thinking about transferring the wort from kettle to whirlpool. A violent transfer can break up the big flocks.

    I'm not sure that I buy this. I whirlpool my beer, as I believe most breweries do. That's quite vigorous, not to mention the roughing-up the beer gets going through the plates of the heat exchanger. Am I wrong? I get crystal clear beer using Brewtan B at 20 minutes out, and Whorl Flock at 10 (with gelatin clarifier for my lightest beers).

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Amsterdam, The Netherlands
    Posts
    21
    Blonberg,

    Thank you for all the information you gave about Brewtan. Will give it a try as well, but mostly for its clarifying properties which will hopefully be good enough.

    Cheers,
    Allard

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