Adding minerals to RO water

[Dark_ale]

A couple of months ago I dropped the extract and went to all grain brewing without knowing to much about it. I have learned allot along the way. I have been having problems with my beers lately because of Temp control and oversparging. I had a judge try my beer and thats what he said and after talking with him I was way over sparging. I have looked at several calculators and it seems that they don't figure out the minerals for you, but you can add how many grams of what you are adding and it will tell you what it will do to the water. Some seem to counter act each other. So If I start with RO water it has nothing in it all the minerals should be zero right?
For my dry stout I need (Ca...80, Mg...19, Na...1.0, HCo3...164, So4...5.0 and Cl...1.0). I just got these numbers off of one of the calculators. How do I get my minerals right to achieve my target? Do I just plug in numbers until I get it close? Am I doing this right. I want to learn how to adjust my water for style of beer. I am asking for promash and grain for fathers day, so I hope to have this figured out by then. Thanks for the help.

[BigWilley]

Salts

Why RO water? Unless your city water is unsuitable for brewing you may be better off using it filtered through a carbon filter. Get a report from your local water district to see where you are. Most brewers that use RO will blend in some city water to hit the target mineral profile. You will never be exact because adding one salt generally involves adding two minerals, adding Gypsum you get calcium and sulphate. Here are the main salts used and ppm contributions. All in one gram per gallon.
Calcium Sulphate (gypsum) =62 ppm Calcium and 148 ppm sulphate
Calcium Chloride = 72 ppm calcium and 127 ppm chloride
Magnesium sulphate (epsom salts) 26 ppm magnesium 103 ppm sulphate
Calcium Carbonate (chalk) 106 ppm calcium and 159 ppm carbonate

Water chemistry in brewing can be as complex or simple as you want to make it. For homebrewing KISS. Unless your water is terrible for brewing you will probably be able to make most beers well.

[Michael Murphy]

I use RO water I just add calcium carbonate to the msh water and zink sulfate to the boil kettle. I would like to add gypsum but its hard to find here in Denmark for some reason, Anyway Im pretty satisfied with the final product the way it is.

I like using RO water for the cleaning, I use minimal chems to the CIP, and dont have calc buildup.

just so you know I use aprox 500grms of Calc chloride in the mash water (19 hl) and I use 70grms of Zn Sulfate to the wort (25-27 hl), I noticed a big difference in the beers from when I didnt put any minerals in the RO water, especialy how the yeast cleared out, Im no chemist but I can imagine there is an explaination for this.

[GarySped]

Water Calcs

Use the Tinseth calculator at this site and be aware of the water of hydration of the salts you are using. Drop me a line and I can go over a few specifics if you wish. I have addressed this with others and as no case is the same it is best to cover this individually - unless the Tinsteth calculator makes sense to you. In which case it is the best out there and free. I only have minor reservations about it.

Gary.

[Fred Scheer]

calculator

Gary, can you please go more in detail on this forum?

[GarySped]

Tinseth and water.

Fred,

Assuming, like the author of the original posting, RO water or pure water is the starting point, the Tinseth calculator will give a very good idea of the salts added and final mineral ions. Best to add in brew water up front and or in the mash to get the optimum effect of calcium and magnesium for example. (But can be costly and wasted in brew water if not used efficiently.) Can be added to kettle though and different brewers have their own pet way and times of addition. Need for individuals to experiment here!

Calcium is the most important ion in many respects and it is known that 50% of it is lost in the mash (the grains act as an exchange resin and adsorb the calcium and likely some other minerals). It is also assumed that about 50 ppm of calcium comes in from the grain - so take that into account in adding extra upfront.

As you know it depends on the style of beer but calcium sulfate needs to be watched from the point of adding excessive amount of sulfate (Bass Ale is a laxative on account of its high sulfate content!) Sulfates give a dryness with the hops and a crispness and chlorides (calcium chlorides) soften the mouthfeel of the beer. So it may be appropriate to play with both salts to get a nice balance of minerals.

Calcium chloride comes in two main hydrated forms - one the dihydrate and one the hexahydrate (meaning 2 or 6 molecules of water are "loosely" attached to each CaCl2). The Tinseth calculator does not account for this water difference (which affects the weight contribution of calcium and chloride added) but it is not such a big factor and should not be worried about too much. Without any water of hydration it is Plaster of Paris! I think all other salts are adequately covered by Tinseth.

So, for the original post- the reader should play a bit with Tinseth's calculator and add different salt combinations until they get the desired (historically accurate) water conditions. Go from there. Others can comment as to where and when they add their salts and for which particular beer styles they are aiming to make.

As a final note - water chemistry and brewing has always been a controversial and complex issue. It keeps reappearing though in publications -the latest article of note being in the February 2007 edition of Brauwelt International. This article, while providing a succinct account of the topic, says nothing new - just more of the same as for many articles on the topic and likely very similar to an article I think you had written a few years ago?). I'd encourage folks to request Fred's paper on water chemistry and look on-line to see if the old Brewing Techniques magazine articles on the topic are still available for grabs.

One final point try to aim for 80-100 ppm of calcium in the final beer (remember the 50% loss of calcium on route from start to finish and the approx 50 ppm contributed from the grains) to avoid calcium oxalates appearing in the stored beer which can lead to gushing. This issue however, is also very controversial (A number of recent papers have convinced me of this delicate issue) as it does not take much to perturb the equilibrium and thus force more oxalates out of solution. Neverthless 80-100 ppm Ca in the final beer is worth aiming for - all other minerals coming along with the calcium salts being accounted for in terms of their contributions to stability flavor and taste.