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  • long pipelines

    We're building a refrigerated packaging room about 120' from our fermentation room. Anyone have experience sending fully fermented, non carbonated beer through a long pipeline and any tips on what to look out for?
    We have the option of going under our floors or overhead.

    Thanks in advance!

  • #2
    Do you plan to insulate the pipe?

    Comment


    • #3
      Under the floors? As in a crawl space? For ease of maintenance and replacement, I would recommend not burying them under anything. If it is uncarbonated beer, the transfer shouldn't be a problem, you will want to pack the pipes with sanitizer, then push it out with CO2 to purge them. Make sure that if there are any low points you have a way to make sure no bubbles of air stay there when you are filling the pipe. Once purged, push your beer through it, then chase with de-aerated water, unless you are considering whats in the pipe as loss.

      Comment


      • #4
        Long Pipelines

        I would recommend a pair of lines in parallel. This gives you the ability to use a recirculating cleaning & sanitation method that will be more effective than the static "packing" method. Putting the pipes under the floor is not recommended unless there is a way to access the piping for inspection and maintenance. Insulation is also recommended, especially for overhead piping that will carry cold product - without insulation the pipes will sweat and it will rain on anything below.

        Comment


        • #5
          1% slope of the pipes, towards the lowest point where you can drain the residual liquid easily
          As much welding as possible, so you don't have to replace gaskets on fittings if the pipes are in a hard to reach area

          Take attention on the pipe diameter. Larger means more lossess during cleaning and beer transfer and more water needed to rinse.
          Smaller means more powerful pumps.

          Also, insulation if you will transfer cold beer. Otherwise you will get mold very fast.

          Comment


          • #6
            Tubulant vs laminar flow

            Good information above but ill add a recommendation to water chase for yield. You will have 18.8 gallons in that pipe @ 150ft/1-1/5"



            Pump sanitary water (boiled water though your heat-ex) at <4gpm @ 1.5" pipe for non-turbulent flow and just over 1gpm for true laminar flow. Faster will increase turbulence and you will get more mixing, which makes it harder to see when you want to stop though a sight glass without adding water to the batch. I would put the sight glass at the wall instead of at the tank so you have some feet of brewhose as a buffer to catch diluted product.



            Introduction and definition of the dimensionless Reynolds Number - online calculators.
            Last edited by Ted Briggs; 04-18-2016, 12:04 PM.
            Brewmaster, Minocqua Brewing Company
            tbriggs@minocquabrewingcompany.com
            "Your results may vary"

            Comment


            • #7
              Don't forget the brewer's adjunct to Murphy's Law: The more difficult something is to get to, the more often you'll need to work on it.
              Timm Turrentine

              Brewerywright,
              Terminal Gravity Brewing,
              Enterprise. Oregon.

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks all for the replies.

                I do plan on insulating.. If it goes under the floor it will go through a crawl space. Not impossible to get to, but I don't really see a drawback to running it along the ceiling, as long as I can pitch slightly.
                I think for ease of cleaning I'll run a 1" sch 80 pvc line beside it so it can form a loop.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by BandedHorn View Post
                  Thanks all for the replies.

                  I do plan on insulating.. If it goes under the floor it will go through a crawl space. Not impossible to get to, but I don't really see a drawback to running it along the ceiling, as long as I can pitch slightly.
                  I think for ease of cleaning I'll run a 1" sch 80 pvc line beside it so it can form a loop.
                  I would run stainless for the loop, that way either pipe can be used for caustic, acid, product, and hot liquor.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Long distance piping

                    We're looking into the possibility of taking some more units across a 20' alley for more production space. See drawing:


                    Click image for larger version

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                    We currently have our canning system (CODI) setup in our main area (right hand side). Here are my options:

                    1.) Move all brites and canner to the left building and filter from the right to the left (we use a DE filter and filter carbonated beer). In addition put more fermenters over there and pump wort over.
                    2.) Put fermenters on he left and pump wort over, then carbonated filtered beer back to a brite on the right hand side for canning and possibly sending beer from a brite on the left directly to the canner on the right.


                    Assumptions:
                    -I would need to insulate piping to prevent mositure / mold and temp loss as stated in the previous comments.
                    -I would need to chase the beer / wort with water to avoid losses.

                    If I run hot HLT water through the lines to chase them and slow the flow to laminar flow, can I avoid having to use de-airrated water if I cut the water off early enough?

                    Any advice would be great.

                    Cheers,
                    Chris Enegren
                    www.enegrenbrewing.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      boiled water will have less oxygen in it, however, it would be advisable to have specifically made DA water. If you have a steam boiler, I believe there are some inexpensive ways to do this. Water can contain up to 8mg/L of oxygen at STP when exposed to air.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Pig launchers! Yay!

                        Check these out. No need to pre-boil water and they get every last drop out of the pipe.
                        Sanitary Solutions is your source for a T316L Sanitary PIG (Product Recovery System) primarily found in the Bakery, Beverage, Dairy, Food , and Meat Industries

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Richard Pivo View Post
                          Check these out. No need to pre-boil water and they get every last drop out of the pipe.
                          http://sanitarysolutions.com/accesso...covery-system/
                          Looks really cool but i would be afraid of it getting stuck, even though they say it will go though elbows. Anyone actually use it? Will it work in hose vs pipe?
                          Brewmaster, Minocqua Brewing Company
                          tbriggs@minocquabrewingcompany.com
                          "Your results may vary"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Ted Briggs View Post
                            Looks really cool but i would be afraid of it getting stuck, even though they say it will go though elbows. Anyone actually use it? Will it work in hose vs pipe?
                            These are for pipes only. Recommended for use in lines with butt welded "swooping" elbows. As long as your welder is good and can make smooth seams they work great.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Does anyone just push with c02 or water and stop before it gets to the tank?

                              Deaerated water systems aren't cheap. The pig is interesting but I'd be worried about getting it stuck.
                              Chris Enegren
                              www.enegrenbrewing.com

                              Comment

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