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Pipe sizes for 5 bbl equipment - 1 inch ID or OD?

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  • Pipe sizes for 5 bbl equipment - 1 inch ID or OD?

    We're having a 5bbl brewery built out here in Argentina at the moment. The plan was to go for all 1 inch piping throughout the system. The guy building it just told me the sanitary clamps for the inlets and outlets he's installed are actually only 22.4mm ID and 25.4mm OD. This has made me panick a bit as the plan was to have 25.4mm ID. Does anyone know if 22.4mm ID inlets and outlets are going to be big enough for this system? I'll be using it with 25.4mm ID brewers hose.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Fettucini View Post
    We're having a 5bbl brewery built out here in Argentina at the moment. The plan was to go for all 1 inch piping throughout the system. The guy building it just told me the sanitary clamps for the inlets and outlets he's installed are actually only 22.4mm ID and 25.4mm OD. This has made me panick a bit as the plan was to have 25.4mm ID. Does anyone know if 22.4mm ID inlets and outlets are going to be big enough for this system? I'll be using it with 25.4mm ID brewers hose.
    I doubt this is actually pipe, it's probably thinwall tubing. Thinwall tubing is actually specified by the OD, not the ID. So one inch "pipe" is actually going to be around 22.1mm ID, if it's the relatively standard 0.065 wall. 0.049 wall tubing is somewhat less common, and works out to a bit over 22.4mm.

    Real pipe is specified by the ID, and 1 inch pipe will be much larger than 1 inch OD. But pipe is generally not polished internally, so you don't often see it for sanitary applications. I'm betting you're getting standard 1 inch sanitary tubing. Virtually any tri-clamp fitting I've seen for thinwall tubing is like this (well, there are some specialty heavy wall fittings).

    However, I can't say whether it will be big enough or not. Usually I see 1.5 inch tubing, but the tri-clamp fittings are the same size for both 1 inch and 1.5 inch, so your hoses can be larger than the fittings in the brewhouse. I'd say on the suction side of a pump, you'd want bigger than the outlet side, but it depends on the pump and other factors.

    In any case 25.4mm hose would go with 25.4mm thinwall tubing and tri-clamp fittings.

    Regards,
    Mike Sharp

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by rdcpro View Post
      I doubt this is actually pipe, it's probably thinwall tubing. Thinwall tubing is actually specified by the OD, not the ID. So one inch "pipe" is actually going to be around 22.1mm ID, if it's the relatively standard 0.065 wall. 0.049 wall tubing is somewhat less common, and works out to a bit over 22.4mm.

      Real pipe is specified by the ID, and 1 inch pipe will be much larger than 1 inch OD. But pipe is generally not polished internally, so you don't often see it for sanitary applications. I'm betting you're getting standard 1 inch sanitary tubing. Virtually any tri-clamp fitting I've seen for thinwall tubing is like this (well, there are some specialty heavy wall fittings).

      However, I can't say whether it will be big enough or not. Usually I see 1.5 inch tubing, but the tri-clamp fittings are the same size for both 1 inch and 1.5 inch, so your hoses can be larger than the fittings in the brewhouse. I'd say on the suction side of a pump, you'd want bigger than the outlet side, but it depends on the pump and other factors.

      In any case 25.4mm hose would go with 25.4mm thinwall tubing and tri-clamp fittings.

      Regards,
      Mike Sharp
      Ok thanks, I actually just spoke to him and seems that all tri clamps are referred to as OD sizes.. so i'll have 22.4mm internal outlets and inlets.. a little on the small side but we can always change at a later date if it's a big problem. We might just have to go a little slower on transfer, but I can't see it adding that much time to the entire process.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Fettucini View Post
        Ok thanks, I actually just spoke to him and seems that all tri clamps are referred to as OD sizes.. so i'll have 22.4mm internal outlets and inlets.. a little on the small side but we can always change at a later date if it's a big problem. We might just have to go a little slower on transfer, but I can't see it adding that much time to the entire process.
        Right, I don't think time is really the issue (it's only 5bbl, after all). Just keep the distance from the vessel outlet to the suction side of your pump as short as possible, or buy one hose that's 1.5" (38.1mm) which works because both sizes use the same tri-clamp size. If you have a long run to the pump suction, you may get a lot of cavitation, especially when the wort is hot.

        Regards,
        Mike

        Comment


        • #5
          Our hard-pipe transfer line from the lauter tun to the kettle is 1", and works fine for our 18bbl tun. It's the mash bed that determines the transfer speed, and we use a VFD to throttle our little C114 down. 1" will be fine for the output side of the pump, 1 1/2" for the inlet--keep it short and minimize bends to prevent cavitation.
          Timm Turrentine

          Brewerywright,
          Terminal Gravity Brewing,
          Enterprise. Oregon.

          Comment


          • #6
            You definitely don't want anything bigger. Too many breweries have hugely oversized pipework. What I mean by oversized, is in comparison to pump outputs, so most of them are using pumps that are too small to achieve turbulent flow and clean the pies properly. You want a minimum flow of 2840 litres / hour to achieve 2 metres / second, which is recommended for small bore pipes such as this (greater than 2 inch nominal can normally get away with 1.5 metres / sec). Stick to 1 inch hose as well. 1.5 inch hose (let's say 35.6 mm ID) requires 7167 litres / hour for effective cleaning. And don't go on motor output size - this is almost irrelevant. You need to look at pump output curves.
            dick

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by dick murton View Post
              You definitely don't want anything bigger. Too many breweries have hugely oversized pipework. What I mean by oversized, is in comparison to pump outputs, so most of them are using pumps that are too small to achieve turbulent flow and clean the pies properly. You want a minimum flow of 2840 litres / hour to achieve 2 metres / second, which is recommended for small bore pipes such as this (greater than 2 inch nominal can normally get away with 1.5 metres / sec). Stick to 1 inch hose as well. 1.5 inch hose (let's say 35.6 mm ID) requires 7167 litres / hour for effective cleaning. And don't go on motor output size - this is almost irrelevant. You need to look at pump output curves.
              Ok thanks for the advice, actually i'm planning on going with this new 1" reinforced/ braded silicon (Silbrade) hose for all the piping. Anyone else tried this? I prefer it to the option of vintner hose as it's all transparent, and easier to see if it's clean, and to see if liquids are flowing. More flexible too.

              Comment


              • #8
                You mean this: http://www.newageindustries.com/silb...icone-hose.asp ?

                Let us know how that works out! Interesting product.

                If you don't mind me asking, how much did you pay/ft, and where did you source it?
                Timm Turrentine

                Brewerywright,
                Terminal Gravity Brewing,
                Enterprise. Oregon.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Yeah that's the one, I'm ordering it here https://www.brewershardware.com/Rein...X-1.38-OD.html . It's $20 a meter which i think is pretty reasonable. Originally was going to go for all stainless steel but I think this looks like a much better option.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Actually i assumed it was in meters as we use the metric system, but i guess it's actually in feet, so it's not that cheap after all..

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Same price as vintner's/brewers hose. See how it hold up, and let us know.

                      From the specs, this stuff seems much lighter than V/B hose--I wonder how well it resists kinking?

                      Having used silicone hoses on my water-boxer VW, you need to be very careful what kind of clamps/swages you use to terminate it. Regular hose clamps will cut right through. Same goes for hose barbs--you need special ones with rounded ridges.
                      Timm Turrentine

                      Brewerywright,
                      Terminal Gravity Brewing,
                      Enterprise. Oregon.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        About the reinforced silicone hose I was considering last year.. we ended up buying it, 1" hose for the whole brewery. Half of it was the silbrade brand and the other half another reinforced silicon hose brand. It's done well so far, benefits are it's much more lightweight and flexible than brewers hose, and can see when liquid is flowing, air bubbles and colour. Downside is slight kinking we've noticed recently, but not enough to cause any blockages or problems so far after 8 months of use. I think it could be solved with anti kink springs at each end. We solved the issue of hose clamps damaging the silicone by wrapping a layer of duct tape around each end.

                        Originally posted by TGTimm View Post
                        Same price as vintner's/brewers hose. See how it hold up, and let us know.

                        From the specs, this stuff seems much lighter than V/B hose--I wonder how well it resists kinking?

                        Having used silicone hoses on my water-boxer VW, you need to be very careful what kind of clamps/swages you use to terminate it. Regular hose clamps will cut right through. Same goes for hose barbs--you need special ones with rounded ridges.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          You might also look at Vintner Vault, they do a nice job on there hoses, compression crimped TC end, we just received 3 hoses, all good quality , good fair prices . brewersvault.com/category/655/Brewery-Hoses.html

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