Startup Brewpub sizing and equipment questions

[sharperbrewer]

As an avid homebrewer and long time business owner it has been my goal to open a small neighborhood brewery. We talked enough about it that I was approached and have accepted an opportunity to run the brewery in a startup brewpub, and have some questions for the pros that populate this forum.

The owner of a local bar that has a small kitchen is expanding and remodeling the entire space into a brewpub.
As planned the Brewpub will be 7500 sq. ft. with 2500 sq. ft. dedicated to brewing, will have 150 seats, full kitchen, full bar, be open for lunch and dinner, and have live music most weekends, staying open til 2am

The idea is to have 4 core beers and 4 rotating specialties on tap always, we'll have a few local guest taps and BMC will be there, in a limited selection to satisfy the late night music crowd.

We are looking at a 5 Bbl electric heated brewhouse, with 4- 5 Bbl FV and 4 - 5 BBl Brites to start, I think we may be undersized. If we brew 3 days a week, and double brew one of those days I believe we would supply enough beer, but I'm not sure.

We already have a 1 Bbl system that could be used for some seasonal offerings or speacialty beers, but not sure it would be worth the effort in the long run, maybe while we're getting started....

I would also like some input on using a CLT for wort cooling rather than just pulling straight off the glycol system. Is adding an expensive CLT a better route than just adding capacity to the Glycol system. Were looking at a Pro Chiller 3hp setup.

Any and all insight to help us start out on the right foot is much appreciated.

Scott

[barleyfreak]

My quick two cents is you definitely have the room for a larger system. Not sure if you're planning much in the way of off-site sales (Kegs, bottling). I get a little dreamy eyed thinking of 2500sf. I have a 7bbl system with 4 7bbl FVs (soon to add 2 15bbl FVs) in just over 400sf. My walk in is only 176sf and I have 6 BTs. I have kegs packed into every nook and cranny.

As for CLT, I wish I had one from May thru September. City water for cooling is pretty warm during these months. Even with my glycol loop prechilling the water, my 7bbl knockout takes about 20-30 minutes longer than dead of winter. If I had the room I'd go for it. Also, fyi, we are running our glycol off a pro chiller 3hp. It is only servicing the 4 FVs though and for about 45-60 minutes during knock out the prechiller.

[foestauf]

Our water in Florida gets too hot in the summertime. You will put one heck of a load on your chiller. If you have the space go with the CLT, it will end up coming out about the same money wise in the end.

[sharperbrewer]

Thanks for the insight and advice.

As far as number of fermenters and Brites, is an equal amount of each the way to go or should there be an extra brite in the mix. Trying to nail down the optimum ratio.

[foestauf]

Thanks for the insight and advice.

As far as number of fermenters and Brites, is an equal amount of each the way to go or should there be an extra brite in the mix. Trying to nail down the optimum ratio.

Really up to you and how many lines you want to serve with brite tanks. You'll find everyone has their own opinion on this. Some find it easier to serve off strictly kegs so you go about 6:1 others like using brites as a serving vessel so totally up to you. You want to deal with cleaning a few vessels in your walk-in or cleaning several kegs out on the floor?
Pros and cons to each.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

[barleyfreak]

Thanks for the insight and advice.

As far as number of fermenters and Brites, is an equal amount of each the way to go or should there be an extra brite in the mix. Trying to nail down the optimum ratio.

We started with 4 FVs and 4 BTs (in the walkin). We have 8 taps. So I spend a lot of time cleaning/sanitizing/filling/moving kegs just to service those extra 4 taps. We have since filled out the rest of our walkin with 2 more BTs and if I could do it all over again I would have spent the money for the 6 BTs at the outset. But we also do not have a real keg washer -- just a manual/sink/manifold.

[Yanknonion]

Hi Scott

Don't know if this helps, but we have 3 bbl system and started with 3 - 7 bbl fvs and one 7 bbl brite with the idea of doing back to back brews. All I can say about that is be prepared for a very long day doing back to backs. Owner is now talking about getting 3 more 7 bbl fermenters to keep up with demand. (We keg everything). I really don't want to do it unless he also goes to 7 bbl brewhouse. I would go with proper sizing of the brewhouse first, and then decide how many fvs and brites you need as those are easier to add as your demand increases.

[sharperbrewer]

All 5BBl unitanks?

Does it make sense to use all 5B Bbl unitanks? More in terms of ease of use. If I go with the separate FV and BBT's, I'd have to wait to have an empty Brite to transfer and carbonate, with unitanks it would seem I could have a beer ready, all carbed up and conditioning, then just switch the beer line, seamless tap change. I suppose a few 1/2Bbl kegs would solve this, but there's some extra work in that too.

And with a 5 Bbl brewhouse, does it make any sense to go with all 10Bbl uni's, or maybe a few in the mix? I don't think we'll need them for awhile but it's cheaper now than switching out later I suppose.

Thanks Gents,

Cheers!

[mmussen]

If you're serving from tanks - particularly if they're jacketed you're better off with brites.

I've never been able to pull nice clean beer from the bottom of a unitank so to have a tank full of clean carbed beer you'd still have to transfer the beer to a different tank.
Also the shape of the cone, placement of jackets, and placement of the thermowell usually means that in a unitank you won't be able to keep beer at proper serving temp once the beer is only in the cone. Brite tanks do a much better job of keeping beer at temp.
You can keg quite well directly off of a unitank, but even then I prefer to have a brite tank to clarify and carbonate the beer. Means you can fill the FV up that much sooner, and the brite only has beer in it for a day or two until its all kegged off.

If you're planning on serving a lot of your beer from tanks I'd personally get single wall brites that I'd keep in the walk in - less problems with beer warming up when the tank gets low. By transferring almost finished beer you can clean cold and under CO2. Keeping the tanks in the fridge also means you don't have to rig up a system to keep the tap lines cold all the way to the tank itself.

Cheers

[sharperbrewer]

the brew space is about 50 ft. from the cooler where we'll also be serving from kegs, not enough room there for brites of any size.
Looking for the best setup for serving from jacketed tanks. Using beer pumps.