If buying a 5BBL...

[PeaceKeeperBrew]

Thank you

We are a 3bbl brew length with 34bbl of fermentor space (soon to be 44bbl).
Our plan was to get a smaller system that we could pay cash for (all in with bottling line under 200k cad).
We distribute just in our town of 60k, and while this was a ton of work (super glad I've got a second set of hands in the brewery now) we are happy we went this route.
While we aren't as profitable as we could be with a longer brew length, we are able to turn a profit. I know that we are going to need to expand sooner than later, but it was great for us to develop a brand in our home town, and when we upgrade to a 30bbl, we have got the perfect pilot system so we aren't out anything from our original investment.
It would be worth looking into fixed costs and seeing how much you need to sell to break even (which I am sure you have done) and then how long it would take to pay for a larger system once you have established a reputation.
I just realized that this is a huge aside from the original question.
We have a 3 bbl brewhouse with 1-3bbl uni, 3-7bbl uni, and 1-(soon to be 2) 10bbl. We brew on average 2.5x a week, (single, double, and triple batches)


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You're strictly distribution? Thanks for all the information, nickfl made me a little nervous about my initial plans, so a system like yours would make more sense for me.

[dmartin]

You're strictly distribution? Thanks for all the information, nickfl made me a little nervous about my initial plans, so a system like yours would make more sense for me.

Growler fills and the rest gets distributed to local bars/restaurants. We just started bottling bombers and are looking to do about 40% total volume in bombers. It was a one man operation for the first 8 months (now a two with a volunteer that comes in somewhat sporadically, mostly to shoot the shit) so we didn't have time for a tap room. I know that's where you make money, but it also seems like the least appealing. We just want to make beer, not necessarily serve it (at least for now).


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[nickfl]

Thank you, this is exactly what I want to hear, I appreciate you being honest with me. I am being overly optimist for one reason, my business plan. I am trying to get the capital so that I am not struggling throughout the first year so much.

So if you are doing 700BBLs a year, what size system do you use to accommodate that, along with the fermentation vessels/Brites? I would love to have a more in depth conversation with you if you have the time, via a private messages

We have a 15BBL brewhouse with 3 x 15BBL fvs, 4 x 30BBL fvs and a brite tank for each size. We also have 2 x 15BBL fvs, a brite and two fouders for our sour program... but the turnaround on those is much longer and it is a relatively small part of our production so ignore those. We started with one less 30 and none of the sour stuff. We sell around 700BBL in our taproom and this year we will be around 1600BBL total. We could probably do 2500 to 3000 BBL/yr with this equipment if we wanted to, so there is plenty of capacity to grow. Part of the issue with tanks is that we could meet our production with two of the 30s in theory, but that wouldn't allow us to do seasonal and special releases the way we want to. Those beers are a small but meaningful part of our production and they really help drive the sales of our flagship beers. The perception of quality is increasingly important and the days when you can go out into the market with a cream and an Irish red and impress people enough to move product are pretty much over. We have seen our distributor drop a lot of out of town brands recently as they have found that some of the "me too" startup breweries end up blending in to the background and failing to do any significant volume outside of their home town.

2016 is our third full year of distributing. We only sell in our home town and only through one distributor, we have deliberately grown slow and focused on maximizing our penetration of this market. We could probably do twice the volume we do right now if we had gone state wide and really pushed, but there are costs to that and this has worked for us.

Keep in mind that you don't need to do several thousand barrels a year to be successful, depending on your taproom situation. We make a profit on our taproom sales alone, which makes the distribution very profitable as it grows. I think I may have answered some questions no one asked here, but my point is that you can make the 5BBL system work, but probably shouldn't plan on doing several thousand barrels with it, and your shouldn't count on growing to that size too quickly.

Edit: I should also mention that the 700BBL in our taproom is mostly pints, and that makes a huge difference. Pints and special release bottles bring in a LOT of money per BBL. Growlers aren't nearly as good, but are still profitable. Dock sales of kegs to the public, in my opinion, are a waste of time. Very low profit per BBL, a big hassle and a good way to get your kegs stolen.

[PeaceKeeperBrew]

Thanks

We have a 15BBL brewhouse with 3 x 15BBL fvs, 4 x 30BBL fvs and a brite tank for each size. We also have 2 x 15BBL fvs, a brite and two fouders for our sour program... but the turnaround on those is much longer and it is a relatively small part of our production so ignore those. We started with one less 30 and none of the sour stuff. We sell around 700BBL in our taproom and this year we will be around 1600BBL total. We could probably do 2500 to 3000 BBL/yr with this equipment if we wanted to, so there is plenty of capacity to grow. Part of the issue with tanks is that we could meet our production with two of the 30s in theory, but that wouldn't allow us to do seasonal and special releases the way we want to. Those beers are a small but meaningful part of our production and they really help drive the sales of our flagship beers. The perception of quality is increasingly important and the days when you can go out into the market with a cream and an Irish red and impress people enough to move product are pretty much over. We have seen our distributor drop a lot of out of town brands recently as they have found that some of the "me too" startup breweries end up blending in to the background and failing to do any significant volume outside of their home town.

2016 is our third full year of distributing. We only sell in our home town and only through one distributor, we have deliberately grown slow and focused on maximizing our penetration of this market. We could probably do twice the volume we do right now if we had gone state wide and really pushed, but there are costs to that and this has worked for us.

Keep in mind that you don't need to do several thousand barrels a year to be successful, depending on your taproom situation. We make a profit on our taproom sales alone, which makes the distribution very profitable as it grows. I think I may have answered some questions no one asked here, but my point is that you can make the 5BBL system work, but probably shouldn't plan on doing several thousand barrels with it, and your shouldn't count on growing to that size too quickly.

Edit: I should also mention that the 700BBL in our taproom is mostly pints, and that makes a huge difference. Pints and special release bottles bring in a LOT of money per BBL. Growlers aren't nearly as good, but are still profitable. Dock sales of kegs to the public, in my opinion, are a waste of time. Very low profit per BBL, a big hassle and a good way to get your kegs stolen.

I appreciate you all taking the time out of your day to give me some advise.