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some start up micro brewery questions

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  • some start up micro brewery questions

    I am in the beginning stages of getting a microbrewery together and have a couple basic questions.. First and foremost is about ventilation. At the moment I am not dedicated to an electric, direct fire or steam system. In fact I am hoping to go with whichever is the easiest to ventilate. Any thoughts on this would be great. In my space there is no ventilation at the moment and I think the best I could do for ventilation is maybe a flu from the boil kettle to the outside through an adjacent wall. So with that being said I guess I am looking for suggestions on brewhouse type.. I will be distribution only aside from a small amount of gift shop beer.

    Secondly, I have a space with 8' ceilings and I know that is tight but I am really hoping to make that work. I feel like my best chance of that happening is with a direct fire system but on the flipside I feel like a direct fire system is going to be the toughest to ventilate.

    Any thoughts or insight will be greatly appreciated. Thank you

  • #2
    Electric is easy to ventilate since you only have to worry about the steam from the kettle. With gas you would need to also ventilate the fire box. Your best bet is to talk with code enforcement Inspector in your town or city and see what their requirements are. My experience is that some codes and requirements can vary significantly from town to town.

    What size system are you looking at?

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    • #3
      Originally posted by DocJones View Post
      Electric is easy to ventilate since you only have to worry about the steam from the kettle. With gas you would need to also ventilate the fire box. Your best bet is to talk with code enforcement Inspector in your town or city and see what their requirements are. My experience is that some codes and requirements can vary significantly from town to town.

      What size system are you looking at?
      5 bbl, 3 fermenters and a brite

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      • #4
        On a 5bbl system, your electric panel is going to be well over 100amps and that means you'll probably need a UL listed control panel (depends on your local code inspectors) and have an electrician hardwire the control panel to your main panel. Permits + Electrician cost $$. Ventilation is cheap since it's just steam and a short draw for you. You probably won't even need a fan but if you do, it'll be small and inexpensive.

        If you go with gas, you'll have to hire an HVAC guy to run your gas lines, build your firebox and vent. Permits, etc. If natural gas isn't available, then you've gotta install an exterior propane tank. All this will most likely cost more than going electrical, but I would get quotes on both before making your decision.

        Steam is the most expensive and not worth it for you unless you have plans for a 10-15bbl system later on and you have the cash upfront to be expansion ready. My guess is with your ceiling height, that's not in the cards for this building and so steam isn't really viable.

        One reason to consider direct fire over electric is that later on if you upgrade equipment. Electric is usually not cost effective over 7bbl so when you upgrade your brewhouse, you'll probably change your heating method. But again, your space may not be viable for a 10bbl brewery due to height. I would get measurements of those larger systems now and plan for those decisions later. Most likely you'll have to relocate and if so, don't invest too much in tenant improvements that you can't take with you. Just food for thought.

        One last thing: With gas, you'll usually need to have a fire suppression system in the building and your fire dept. along with the planning department are going to have a long list of requirements for safety reasons. If you have to make a lot of these building improvements, it usually ends up costing more than your brewhouse and you can't take any of it with you if you move. With electrical, your panel can be sold with the brewhouse if you ever upgrade your brewhouse so the only "lost costs" from electrical is going to be your electrical work, which isn't too big a deal.
        Last edited by GritCity; 10-21-2016, 12:27 PM.

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        • #5
          There are a couple of issues with immersion heaters. 1) difficult to CIP, you need to get in the kettle to clean underneath 2) You use extra chemicals due to the extra cleaning needed 3) in most places electricity is more expensive than gas

          I think at the 5BBL size direct fire is the best option. As long as your buying good equipment the firebox will be part of the design for the kettle/whirlpool. You do need to flues, but that is the price of doing business. If you don't have mains gas most gas companies will supply bulk LPG tanks for a free or a minimal monthly fee as long as your buying the gas from them.

          If gas is just not an option I would look at steam heat with an electric boiler, at the 5BBL size you can find a boiler for a reasonable price. Steam is always the optimum heat option if it fits in your budget.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by TiminOz View Post
            There are a couple of issues with immersion heaters. 1) difficult to CIP, you need to get in the kettle to clean underneath 2) You use extra chemicals due to the extra cleaning needed 3) in most places electricity is more expensive than gas

            I think at the 5BBL size direct fire is the best option. As long as your buying good equipment the firebox will be part of the design for the kettle/whirlpool. You do need to flues, but that is the price of doing business. If you don't have mains gas most gas companies will supply bulk LPG tanks for a free or a minimal monthly fee as long as your buying the gas from them.

            If gas is just not an option I would look at steam heat with an electric boiler, at the 5BBL size you can find a boiler for a reasonable price. Steam is always the optimum heat option if it fits in your budget.
            This is spot on. Only thing I can add to this is the cost of installing the steam piping is not cheap at all. While I did not get an exact quote I was being told by the contractor who did another small (15bbl) brewery in the area that yes 20k is about right for the cost to install the piping. That plus another 50k for the boiler just did not make sense for me to start with when direct fire all I have to pay for is the flue from the firebox to the outside and about 900 in LPG piping. Like mentioned the bulk LPG tank is put in at place at no cost by AmeriGas.

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            • #7
              5bbl

              I have a 5BBL direct fire. Used a commercial restaurant 6 burner hot plate (~200k btu) with a steel tube frame over it for strength. Takes around an hour to come to a boil and holds the boil just fine. Ridiculously inefficient and the room heats up fast but gas costs have been ~$10 per batch including hot water. I have a properly sized type 2 hood over it with properly sized exhaust fan with properly sized make up air system. I say properly sized because the town requires an engineer to make all of those decisions on the plan.

              In all costs were:
              BK - $2000 for kettle, $800 for burner, $200 for frame.
              Gas piping - $2000 (also included a few other fixtures, THWH, Furnace...)
              HVAC - hood, fans, intake grates, install, $6000
              Engineered HVAC plans $2000
              Permit fees on just mechanical plan - ~$500

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