Danstar London ESB Yeast

[emmanuales]

We've been trying Danstar London ESB Yeast in our 10BBL recently with negative results. I wondered if anyone else has encountered the following problems...

We've found that, although the packet states the attenuation rate is 65-75%, every time the beer hits 1020, it stops working. It takes off like a beast and ferments a vast amount of wort in a couple of days but then, no matter how high or low the gravity, it won't ferment lower than 1020.

The apparent attenuation appears to be between 55-57%.

Also, the flocculation is truly terrible. No matter how much cold crashing the beer goes through, it fails to flocculate at all. Even US-05 has better flocculation.

Anyone had these problems using ESB?


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[JDN]

I tried it and had very similar results. Fast start to fermentation and then quit around 60% apparent attenuation. I regularly see 80% with liquid Fuller's cultures when I mash at lower temperatures and pitch higher than normal cell counts. I use liquid cultures of the Fuller's strain for all of my core beers, and the dry yeast does not come close to the same attenuation/flocculation performance- only time I've had to use BioFine to produce a relatively brite product with Fullers was with the Danstar yeast. Pretty disappointing to be honest. Doubt I'll give it another try.

[Jedi]

I am also disappointed with danstar yeast. I tried their Saison yeast for a pilot batch. While I had good attenuation, the yeast off flavors were too strong even with a a cold fermentation to the point of aggressively dominating the beer.

[AnthonyB]

For the Belle Saison yeast, there are some indications that the yeast could be better classified as Saccharomyces cerevisiae var. diastaticus which will cause significant issues if you can/bottle beer without filtering or pasteurization.

We tried the ESB yeast out on a seasonal brown ale, got 79% attenuation. Flavors were ok, but overall we were also underwhelmed with the yeast.

[emmanuales]

For the Belle Saison yeast, there are some indications that the yeast could be better classified as Saccharomyces cerevisiae var. diastaticus which will cause significant issues if you can/bottle beer without filtering or pasteurization.

We tried the ESB yeast out on a seasonal brown ale, got 79% attenuation. Flavors were ok, but overall we were also underwhelmed with the yeast.

You did well to get 79% out of it.


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[troyh]

I tried it and had very similar results. Fast start to fermentation and then quit around 60% apparent attenuation. I regularly see 80% with liquid Fuller's cultures when I mash at lower temperatures and pitch higher than normal cell counts. I use liquid cultures of the Fuller's strain for all of my core beers, and the dry yeast does not come close to the same attenuation/flocculation performance- only time I've had to use BioFine to produce a relatively brite product with Fullers was with the Danstar yeast. Pretty disappointing to be honest. Doubt I'll give it another try.

FYI, the Danstar London ESB yeast is not the Fuller's yeast. The quote from John Keeling in its marketing made me wonder so I asked them and they confirmed it is not the Fuller's strain.

From Lallemand's Cervantes Graciela (September 29, 2016), via email:

"The London ESB is not the Fuller’s yeast but it’s very similar in performance. It was selected from our Lallemand yeast library."




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[emmanuales]

I had this sent to me from Lallemand after raising it from them:

• English yeast strain used for production of full bodied Ales, pale ales including styles such as:
ESB, blonde Ale, Bitter, Special/Best Bitter, Scotch Ale, Irish Red Ale, Mild, Porter, Sweet Stout, Oatmeal Stout, English IPA, Old Ale.

• Key thing to note with this yeast strain is that it does not utilize malto-triose, whereas most brewing strains do. This results in higher final PG without the need for mashing in higher or arresting fermentation early.

• For typical single infusion mash temperatures (65-67C, 149-152.5F) FG of 1012 – 1016 (3– 4 Plato) can be expected. To achieve a lower final PG a mash temperature of 62-64C (143.5-147F). Higher mashing temperature will result in higher FG (c.1016-10120 SG/ 4-5 Plato).

• Tolerant to alcohol to c.10%ABV. Higher pitching rates would be recommended for higher alcohol beers.

• Flocculation: Flocculent strain when conditioned but certainly considerably slower than fast flocculating strains such as Nottingham. Vessel cooling and use of fining agents (ideally optimized) and time will promote flocculation.


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[Jedi]

For the Belle Saison yeast, there are some indications that the yeast could be better classified as Saccharomyces cerevisiae var. diastaticus which will cause significant issues if you can/bottle beer without filtering or pasteurization.

We tried the ESB yeast out on a seasonal brown ale, got 79% attenuation. Flavors were ok, but overall we were also underwhelmed with the yeast.

I fined it with biofine. It was a simple saison recipe designed to be approachable with most flavor coming from the yeast. This was not the type of yeast for this recipe, mind you I dont think I would use it in any recipe ever again.

I have heard of bad stories at higher temps with plastic, hot and fusil notes even though it's suggested to ferment higher, I purposely fermented at the low end to avoid those flavors and I still got those notes. Ended up dumping it.

[JDN]

Well, that sure is intentionally misleading! My sales rep never made that clear in all of my email correspondence with them about my interest in a dry fuller's strain.

FYI, the Danstar London ESB yeast is not the Fuller's yeast. The quote from John Keeling in its marketing made me wonder so I asked them and they confirmed it is not the Fuller's strain.

From Lallemand's Cervantes Graciela (September 29, 2016), via email:

"The London ESB is not the Fuller’s yeast but it’s very similar in performance. It was selected from our Lallemand yeast library."






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[emmanuales]

I did a trial on an IPA last week with this yeast. OG 1051.5 and FG 1011.5. Mash temperature was 65C. Was surprised it fermented so low. The apparent attenuation was something like 79%. Not sure what to make of that seeing as the rest of my beers have stalled. It was only a 20L bath and I added a good 50g of yeast, so the pitching rate would have been much higher than usual.


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[Lallemand Caroline]

Lallemand Answer

Hi Caroline from Lallemand here.
I wanted to clarify a few facts on the ESB strain that could possibly answer your questions.

The london ESB strain does not utilize maltotriose, so if you would like to achieve higher attenuation you will need to adjust your mash temperatures accordingly to provide it with the sugars it is able to consume. Another common practice for attaining higher attenuation would be blending with another yeast that is able to utilize maltotriose.
Also, the strain is not supposed to flocculate well, this is a genetic characteristic of the strain as stated in the Tech Data Sheet. We have data sheets for all of our strains, and I am happy to send them directly to anyone who would like to have them. Just shoot me an email cparnin@lallemand.com
Cheers,
Caroline