mash hopping

[jensmaudal]

Hi everyone!
I would like to try out mash hopping and have a few
questiones about the practical issues.

I would expect whole hops to work ok, but will
pellets do the job as well or wont the pellets open
up properly.

What kind of ibu utilisation can jeg expect, will
it be similar to first wort hopping.
Cheers
jens

[Larry Horwitz]

Hey Jens,
don't bother...all you're going to get is a very nice smelling mash. Not hot enough for isomerization...and then the wort will be boiled so you'll lose your aromatics.

I only do it for one beer once a year just to say I did.

[beertje46]

Hey Jens,
don't bother...all you're going to get is a very nice smelling mash. Not hot enough for isomerization...and then the wort will be boiled so you'll lose your aromatics.

I only do it for one beer once a year just to say I did.

Berliner Weisse?

[Larry Horwitz]

for what? Wouldn't do anything.

[beertje46]

for what? Wouldn't do anything.

Sorry, that was a question. What beer do you mash hop, Beliner Wiesse?

Was once a traditional method for BW...

[crassbrauer]

Yes, I agree that mash hopping useless.

However, it may be useful for brewing Berliner Weisse, because Berliner Weisse wort is not commonly boiled. It is only brought up to around 80C and held there.

[jensmaudal]

mash hopping

Larry! that cant be right.
You dont any heat when dryhopping and consequently
no isomerization but you still get lots of taste from
the hops.
jens

[crassbrauer]

What's the point

Larry's talking about isomerization because the addition is before the boil. None of the volatile oils you get from dry-hopping will be retained in the beer through adding hops to the mash. In fact, they'll probably be gone long before the wort reaches the kettle, due to long lautering times (2h+) and high temperatures (78C). Therefore, the only reason to add them that early would be to increase the length of time they are present in the wort for purposes of isomerization, which still won't do much either because the temperature is too low. It just doesn't make sense.

[Sir Brewsalot]

I say try it and see what you get.

I get some great results from first-wort-hopping one of my beers, and I'm still not sure I understand why the bitterness is less than adding them at the beginning of the boil, but in my experience, it is absolutely true.

Though I realize you were looking for a starting point, beyond this, your actual experience will tell you much more.

And though I've never done it, I'm sure pellets will break up just fine,


Cheers,
Scott

[crassbrauer]

Hop utilization is less efficient with mash-hopping because the temperature is lower, resulting in less isomerization. This may also be influenced by the higher extract concentration, the solids in the mash and the absence of the "rolling" aspect of boiling wort. Obviously, some of the hop flavoring components will remain behind in the spent grains, never reaching the kettle. There's a chance some of these components could even be more subject to oxidation.

In every country where beer is brewed, there are fairytales about hop additions. I think mash-hopping is a practice which is supposed to have come from central Europe, but I've only heard of it being done in the US. As far as I know there's no proof that it results in a perceptible difference in flavor. So you're throwing in more hops with nothing really to show for it. (Yes, I've heard that Dr. Fix was a fan of it.)

For best results, the bittering addition is done at least 60 min before the end of the boil (depending upon your kettle). If you have poor utilization in your kettle because it doesn't give you a nice rolling boil or you're brewing on a mountain, then adding the hops when the wort is heating up and boiling a little longer will increase your utilization.

For more hop character, additions at 5 min or less in the kettle, in the whirlpool or through dry-hopping are the most effective. Of course, there's also the hopback and now even "wet-hopping", the practice of using freshly picked hops to flavor beer. I've never had a beer hopped that way, but I've heard it results in a really intense, fruity/floral/spicy nose (depending upon the hops used).

[Moonlight]

From experience, I can say mash hopping is not without merit. Firstly, as noted above, the brewhouse smells wonderful. Secondly, I would agree bitterness is not significant, thirdly, there is more a hoppy mouthfeel and subtle flavors that do transfer into the wort that are -contrary to the textbooks- NOT lost in boil. Whether the results are worth the price of the hops would, of course, be subjective.
Pellets seem to extract better than whole cones.

[boussh]

I agree

I agree with moonlight. we have been mash hopping our blonde ale for the last two batches. there is a subtle round hop character that wasnt there before. I boss isn't happy about the amount of hops we are using (3 kilo for 8 bbl mash) decreasing his profit by a few micor pennies, but the customers notice the difference and like it!

[Jephro]

Hops for thought

I used to run the boiled wort back into the bottom of the mash tun filled with fresh cascade hops and then through the HE. Produced a great aromatic finish and made the whole restaurant smell great too. Well the servers hated it but us beer people loved it.
Jeff

[crassbrauer]

Perhaps you've touched on something mysterious and unknown

Yes, I'm sure for day-in, day-out brewing having a hoppy-smelling brewhouse, particularly when guests are there, is nice.

Perhaps there's some as yet unobserved reaction which occurs in the mash when hops are added, since you both seem to be describing the results similarly, as a "subtle round" flavor and as having a "hoppy mouthfeel".

[Sauce]

From what I've read and heard, mash hopping is akin to first wort hopping.

Theoretically somehow flavor and aroma components bond to wort compounds when the wort is concentrated allowing them to survive the boil.

I have FW hopped, but never have relied on them completely for flavor and/or aroma so I'm stilll slightly sceptical on that process.

As for mash hopping, I did do a small pilot batch using only mash hops, I really didnt perceive any hop character. In talking to other brewers who have used it to some effect, they mentioned it might be effected by your water, the softer your water the more pronounced the effect, the harder, very little.

2nd hand info, but I thought I'd pass it along


JackK