Lager brewing -- avg days until TG is reached

[barleyfreak]

I realize this is subject to many variables, but for loose scheduling purposes, I am trying to at least get a sense for the time from pitching to terminal gravity for a 12p lager. I am only on my 2nd lager here. The first lager I used Saflager 34/70, 1000 grams for a 7bbl batch and after cooling it to the low 50's within 24 hours, it reached TG in about 9 or 10 days. That seemed rather fast. I am now brewing another using a fresh pitch (7bbl) of WLP830. Per their instructions, I pitched warm and slowly lowered to ferment temp of low 50's within about 24 hours. It is past 16 days, dropping at about .3p/day, and at the current pace will reach TG in ~21 days. That seems rather slow. I had thought that it would hit TG in ~14 days. I plan on harvesting/reusing this yeast.


1) How many days to TG do others experience using a fresh pitch of this or similar yeasts for ~12p lagers at this temp?
2) How many days to TG do others see for repitched slurries? I plan on repitching cold (~50-53)

Thanks,

[jebzter]

We use 830 all the time, but I highly recommend that you do not chill after pitching. For a fresh pitch we get to TG by day 10, but our d-rest has to be 2 days longer, on re-pitches we get to TG by 7 days, and d-rest for 2 days before crashing to lager. This is on a ~12p beer as well. The yeast tend to go back to sleep if you lower the temperature during the growth phase. We try to make sure that we pitch within 3 degrees of ferment temperature, the trick is to let it rise at the end of ferment.

[barleyfreak]

We use 830 all the time, but I highly recommend that you do not chill after pitching. For a fresh pitch we get to TG by day 10, but our d-rest has to be 2 days longer, on re-pitches we get to TG by 7 days, and d-rest for 2 days before crashing to lager. This is on a ~12p beer as well. The yeast tend to go back to sleep if you lower the temperature during the growth phase. We try to make sure that we pitch within 3 degrees of ferment temperature, the trick is to let it rise at the end of ferment.

So you pitch a fresh pitch at 50-55? White Labs does say you can fresh pitch cold but have to use twice the amount. For example, I used a 7bbl fresh pitch, and had I pitched that cold, they say I should purchase a 15 bbl pitch. Definitely any subsequent reharvested pitches will be at ferment temps.

dave

[MariusGraff]

Pitch more yeast

Hey,
We use the 830 for all our lagers. We see a slower fermentation when using a direct pitch vs harvested yeast. I would recomend to use a 15 bbl pitch for 7 bbls of wort. We knock out at 11 celsius and let it rise to 12 degrees for fermentation. Fermentation takes 6-9 days for most of our lower gravity lagers.

[BrewinLou]

We use 833, normally takes 10 day to TG depending on the style. Then we give it a D-rest and drop 3 degrees per day until crashed. Marius, how many generations are you getting out of the 830? Cheers.

[jebzter]

We pitch 2L into our ~19bbl batches, its probably a little under, our yeast do not sit for a week before use. We get ours within 2 days of use, this is why we have a longer d-rest for first gen yeast, theres a little more stress. Our ferment temp is closer to 55, when fermentation starts, it goes fast. Pitching warm should help growth go faster, but if you end up cooling close to 10 degrees in 24 hours, it will go to sleep for a bit. Here is our timeline for first gen yeast: Lag-14 hours, fermentation-8 days, free rise 5 degrees over 2 days(start 1-2P short of TG), diacetyl rest 4 days, crash. Works every time, were packaged by day 29, no detectable off flavors. Its also been sent for lab testing, and it has no problems staying well below threshold for VDKs. This may work for you, it may not. Yeast are effected nearly as much by temperature as the shape and size of the tank, so depending on your setup it may just take longer because you need to be colder. When I would pilot the batch on my homebrew setup, it would take two full weeks to attenuate.

[barleyfreak]

We pitch 2L into our ~19bbl batches, its probably a little under, our yeast do not sit for a week before use. We get ours within 2 days of use, this is why we have a longer d-rest for first gen yeast, theres a little more stress. Our ferment temp is closer to 55, when fermentation starts, it goes fast. Pitching warm should help growth go faster, but if you end up cooling close to 10 degrees in 24 hours, it will go to sleep for a bit. Here is our timeline for first gen yeast: Lag-14 hours, fermentation-8 days, free rise 5 degrees over 2 days(start 1-2P short of TG), diacetyl rest 4 days, crash. Works every time, were packaged by day 29, no detectable off flavors. Its also been sent for lab testing, and it has no problems staying well below threshold for VDKs. This may work for you, it may not. Yeast are effected nearly as much by temperature as the shape and size of the tank, so depending on your setup it may just take longer because you need to be colder. When I would pilot the batch on my homebrew setup, it would take two full weeks to attenuate.

Thanks Jebzter, that's helpful. Just to clarify, when you pitch a first gen, you pitch at ~55?

[MariusGraff]

Hey,
We've done up to 6. Yeast was still good at that point but we had to dump it to accomodate other strains.

[jebzter]

That is correct, pitch at ferm temp. Also, since I saw someone ask about how many generations are had with the yeast, we are able to get 7, after that flocculation gets worse and we have to increase the quantity of finings used.