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Thread: Brewery Startup - Advice on my Cost, Expense, and Profit Projections

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
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    OR
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    Architect Fees

    I'm a brewing in planning and just got a proposal from an architect here in Portland, OR that I've been working with. Quite a bit higher than I expected and I'm going to be talking to my GC and the architect to figure out if it really needs to be that high or if there is a way to bring it down. It's a very significant number though that any brewery in planning needs to budget.
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  2. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by seekingalpha View Post
    I'm a brewing in planning and just got a proposal from an architect here in Portland, OR that I've been working with. Quite a bit higher than I expected and I'm going to be talking to my GC and the architect to figure out if it really needs to be that high or if there is a way to bring it down. It's a very significant number though that any brewery in planning needs to budget.
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    It all depends on the extent of your build out. As an engineer that works in the tenant finish out industry, those numbers do not look unreasonable to me (assuming this is in the range of 3000-5000 sqft building with a taproom). Assuming their rates are similar to my firms rates, Architecture is looking at about a week for SD, 2 weeks for CD, half a week for Permitting, and a little over half a week for CA.

    One item not shown on the fee proposal is Structural Engineering. If you are in an existing building and add equipment to the roof, want to cut any new door or window openings, need seismic anchorage done for your tanks, etc...you will need a structural engineer.
    Brandon Besser, P.E.
    "He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom" - Gandalf

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    FL
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    2

    Architect Fees

    Quote Originally Posted by seekingalpha View Post
    I'm a brewing in planning and just got a proposal from an architect here in Portland, OR that I've been working with. Quite a bit higher than I expected and I'm going to be talking to my GC and the architect to figure out if it really needs to be that high or if there is a way to bring it down. It's a very significant number though that any brewery in planning needs to budget.
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    New or existing structure? My architectural plans with MEP drawings for new construction ran $17,000. Engineering fees for the site plan ran around $15,000. This does not include any permit or review costs.

  4. #19
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    Jul 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbesser View Post
    It all depends on the extent of your build out. As an engineer that works in the tenant finish out industry, those numbers do not look unreasonable to me (assuming this is in the range of 3000-5000 sqft building with a taproom). Assuming their rates are similar to my firms rates, Architecture is looking at about a week for SD, 2 weeks for CD, half a week for Permitting, and a little over half a week for CA.

    One item not shown on the fee proposal is Structural Engineering. If you are in an existing building and add equipment to the roof, want to cut any new door or window openings, need seismic anchorage done for your tanks, etc...you will need a structural engineer.
    Thanks very much for taking the time to look over my architect proposal. The space is 1800sf in a larger building. Sounds like you would expect a little lower bid. Plus that does not include the structural work you mentioned which we will need for anchoring vessels, making sure the slab is thick enough, the ubiquitous overhead door we'll install, likely put a piece of equipment on the roof, and we'll replace storefront windows(not sure if that's structural PE territory). Do you think it's reasonable to say "I need this price dropped to $X without limiting the scope."? Is there any way to work with this architect and get the price down you think?
    Thanks so much for any advice!

  5. #20
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    Jul 2017
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    OR
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike-StMichaels View Post
    New or existing structure? My architectural plans with MEP drawings for new construction ran $17,000. Engineering fees for the site plan ran around $15,000. This does not include any permit or review costs.
    I'm in an existing building, and our city permitting and SDC's fee's are waived in an incentive program. Thanks for contributing, much appreciated!

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Atlanta, GA, USA
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    6

    Question Making taproom sales projections and templates

    I am currently putting together a business plan for a location we're interested in opening a 7-10bbl brewery and taproom. Our sales are going to be almost exclusively direct sales in the tap room. We plan to have a small counter-service food program as well. I've conducted the market analysis and know the size of our target market, daily drive-bys, and the retail gap for Food/Drink establishments in my area. I'm wondering if anyone has recommendations for projecting sales based on market analysis. I've been using the SCORE template for organizing my financials but I'm not sure how to make accurate estimates based on my market research. Any help would be much appreciated!

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Midway, Georgia, Liberty County
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    12
    Fishweir, I am up here in Midway GA exit 76, twenty minutes south of Savannah. My wife and I complete the Jax Ale Trail years back. We are in the initial phases of planning. Would you consider being a mentor? What brewery are you in J-ville?


    Quote Originally Posted by Fishweir View Post
    I just went through all these projections etc as I am in the process of a startup. The thing that sticks out to me is your breakdown of sales. I honestly think that you will move a lot more beer through your taproom than that, and that is going to lead to making your first year substantially more successful.
    From all the stats I have seen and read about, you should expect to do 75% of your sales in your taproom. According to the most recent Nielsen study on pint prices, people pay less than they would! Nielsen sets the proper price for a pint around $6.22. So we projected ours at $5.50 here in Jacksonville (low cost of living etc).
    Your keg price will be $110 (people here are getting $118).

    Also, why do you assume you will only do 500+ BBL's? If you spend your time during the planning phase to ensure an awesome taproom build out to create a great experience, no reason you cant get to 700+.

    just my thoughts
    DM me if you want some of my projection sheets etc. I wont post them here, but I would be happy to share with you what we are looking at.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Midway, Georgia, Liberty County
    Posts
    12

    Share?

    Ken, do you have this still saved in excel format. would you consider sharing with me?



    Quote Originally Posted by kenfitz View Post
    Hello,

    I was wondering if some folks could look at my first attempt at operating financials for my business plan and tell me what I may be missing, if any of my numbers are way off, or if something doesn't make sense?
    I tend to over estimate costs to be safe, but I don't want to go overboard. I am still researching the costs and expenses, so this is a ballpark. Unexpectedly, I was introduced to someone who is very interested in building a shopping complex in my town and he and his partners want to get a brewery in there and my name came up. Since I just got started with this, I want to get some sort of draft done on my business plan this weekend to them when I meet with them next week.

    In a nutshell, I am planning on starting off with 10 bbl batches done once a week and go from there (~500 bbl per year). Most sales in the tap room, with some sixtels and kegs going to some local bars and restaurants.

    Here is a summary of how I have the document broken down:
    1. Costs to making a batch of beer.
    a. I broke it down between the amounts for my lower gravity beers (low) and higher gravity beers (high).
    2. Calculate the Average cost (between high and low numbers) per batch, bbl, gal, and oz.
    3. Price I plan to ask for various vessel sizes and net profit based on the cost.
    4. My expected sales.
    5. Yearly and Monthly profit based on the number of barrels I plan on producing.
    6. Expected Monthly and Yearly expenses. (This is were I may need some better numbers).
    7. My expected net profit.

    Thanks in advance for any advice or tips.

    Ken
    Attachment 50339

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Marietta
    Posts
    10
    Thanks OP for the P&L example, I reworked it for my own project and feel a lot more organized moving forward.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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