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Thread: Need help completing equipment list for a new brewery

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
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    Cincinnati, OH
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    387
    Quote Originally Posted by jebzter View Post
    Previously mentioned was grain mill and auger removal. Do not do this, milling of grain is a crucial control point for the quality and consistency of your beers. Once you give that responsibility to someone else, you loose any control over efficiency that you have. While most of our suppliers have quality mills and strive to give the most consistent crush, you don't always have the same person milling each day, and therefore can have inconsistent results. Mills are not all that expensive, and with all the other things mentioned above, it would suck to have batch to batch changes because of something so simple to control.
    I would slightly disagree. Often a brewpub mill will be a 2 roller, and they can have a tendency for the rollers to walk over time. If you are not measuring and checking fairly regularly, you can have just as much or more inconsistencies in house. Potentially less efficiency as well. You do however remain in control.

    Most large suppliers offering pre-milled malt will be using a 4, or even 6 roller mill offering much more consistency (and possibly efficiency) in the milled grains. I used pre-milled malts at a small brewpub for over a year and had extremely consistent results. It did change at one point, but was noted, mentioned, and later identified as a change in kernel size due to barley crop. Actually got a letter directly from the supplier mentioning the wet crop year as the reason. It was adjusted for at the supplier, and then when kernel size changed with a new bulk lot, it was re-adjusted again. Can just as easily happen in house without noticing.

    I would say you are better off having the control of as much as possible in-house, and there were other negatives associated with pre-milled malt. The mill is used for many companies, and takes time for the supplier to process, so that can hinder what is available. The biggest issue I saw was oxidation. Literally the malt would taste oxidized within a couple days of the milling. I am sure some of this transferred to the beer, however I could not identify it in the final product. We were a brewpub, so the beer did not last long enough for aging to take place and we did not store bulk amounts of malt, although I am sure the oxidation of malt would have had a slight effect on shelf life.

    I would never advocate for using pre-milled malts myself, but I was able to make consistent, and quality product with it during the year I had to. We upgraded to a mill as soon as feasible, but it was once we were upgrading the whole brewery as well. At 5bbl or less, I would not personally consider a mill a necessary investment, especially if you plan to upgrade in the future.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    weifang city,shandong province,China
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    Quote Originally Posted by psychobiter View Post
    Pretty sure he is saying with a brewhouse this size, rakes are not needed. You can get it done with just a paddle and a shovel on this scale.
    Thanks for your explanation!

  3. #18
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    weifang city,shandong province,China
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    Quote Originally Posted by brewmatt333 View Post
    On a 3-5 bbl scale, there is no need for mechanical rakes in the mash tun. It's an unnecessary expense, and one more thing in the brewery that will eventually break. A simple wood mash paddle to help you stir the mash, and a shovel or something along those lines to get the grain out is all you need. We use a rake from the hardware store with a plastic cutting board drilled on. This is on a 12bbl scale and works just fine.
    I was wandering whether the mashing process can be thoroughly if no mixer during mashing, and if the sugar can be removed clearly if no rake during lautering. Will it be wasteful for sugar leaving in the spent grain?

  4. #19
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    Oct 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray View Post
    I was wandering whether the mashing process can be thoroughly if no mixer during mashing, and if the sugar can be removed clearly if no rake during lautering. Will it be wasteful for sugar leaving in the spent grain?
    It can absolutely be done without mixer or rakes - up to around 15 BBLs (17.5 HL). I have seen a 20 BBL (23 HL) system that is run by hand mixing and hand grain out. Not a fun job by any stretch, but certainly can be done with reasonable efficiency. There is no need for mixers/rakes in a system that is 10 BBL (11.7 HL) or less. Rakes are not often used during lauter unless you are brewing on large systems, or run into problems. You would use the rakes on mash in for a mash/lauter combination vessel, and stop them before vorlauf and run to kettle. You might "cut the bed", but usually a proper sparge will give you sufficient efficiency without using them at all. The design of your false bottom and vessel dimensions can have an effect as well.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH, USA
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    63
    In addition to the carbon tank for removing chlorine before the RO system mentioned above, and depending upon just how "bad" your water is, you may need additional pretreatment as well, potentially including a water softener. Just as hardness scale will build up around your faucets, the same scale will build up inside reverse osmosis membranes.

    You'll also need storage tanks for the RO water, a tether float switch to automate keeping the tank full, lockout switches on any backwashing pretreatment equipment. Also a TDS meter to monitor the performance of your RO system. Some breweries we work with also opt for a UV recirculation system on the holding tank. You'll also need a repressurization pump to move the RO water from the tank.

    Russ
    Probrewer.com Advertising Supporter

    Buckeye Hydro
    Water Treatment Systems & Supplies
    www.BuckeyeHydro.com
    Info@buckeyehydro.com
    513-312-2343

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Chesterfield, UK
    Posts
    1,750
    "I was wandering whether the mashing process can be thoroughly if no mixer during mashing, and if the sugar can be removed clearly if no rake during lautering. Will it be wasteful for sugar leaving in the spent grain? "

    Re mashing in without rakes - to echo UnFermentable - yes definitely. I have used mash tuns without mixers for 800 hl brewlengths at 5% ABV - that is what Steels mashers were designed to do, albeit at the expense of a little oxygen pickup. But I have brewed lagers and ales with this sized system.

    Most so called mixer rakes installed in micro brewery kit are not fit for either mixing or for cutting. They are designed for cutting with the correct control systems, but these are lacking, and do not mix efficiently - a completely different design is required for mixing.

    Having said all the above - you need the right proportions of husk, grits and flour to be successful, and yes, you wont get quite such good extracts, but in a system this size, the cost is peanuts compared to the cost of the additional so called mixer / cutting rakes
    dick

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