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Thread: To make starter directly in FV and transfer on top or to prop in a separate vessel?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    62

    To make starter directly in FV and transfer on top or to prop in a separate vessel?

    What is yall's opinions on do a 3 bbl prop in a 20 bbl FV and transfer on top, or is it better to prop in a 3bbl vessel and collect the slurry and pitch in? Trying to figure out our next step with constantly propping up to 20P for our main beer.
    Nick Tanner
    Head Brewer/Founder
    Cherry Street Brewing Cooperative
    Cumming, GA
    www.cherrystreetbrewing.com

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Posts
    119

    3 bbl propagation for 30-40 bbl. brews

    CSBC,

    I'm looking for an answer to a similar question. I would like to know if you have success using 3 bbl. pitches and propagating them in your 20 bbl. FVs.
    We typically waste a lot of yeast because it can be a long time between brew days for us. We have 30-45 bbl. FVs.

    We also have several 6 bbl. tanks that would be OK for propagating, but the cones are not very steep so we have a hard time harvesting yeast from the bottom. I'd like to hear if we can use 100 gallons or so to prop up a 3 bbl pitch and then force all of that slurry into a 40 bbl. brew. I know this is not the best way, but maybe better than what we are doing now.

    thanks for any input.
    Scott Swygert
    Founder - Honky Tonk Brewing Co.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Williamsburg, VA
    Posts
    28
    I routinely prop up 6bbl pitches to 60bbls in my 5bbl FVs. Brew into a 5bbl pilot tank with a scaled down version of the 30bbl production recipe. 24 hours later cell count is sufficient for 60bbls. Brew two 30bbl batches back to back- push the whole 5bbl tank into the 60 with the first 30bbl batch. I only aerate on the first 30bbl batch. Works great.

    If I don't have an open 5bbl tank, I'll put the prop batch in the cone of a 60bbl tank, but I prefer to put it in a 5bbl tank so I can control the temperature and it's easier to take a gravity/pH sample.
    Jonathan Newman
    The Virginia Beer Company
    Williamsburg, VA

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Henderson, NV
    Posts
    12
    Have done the prop in the larger vessel and pumped the big batch on top many times with good success. Never tried to harvest the yeast just brew something more neutral the day or two before and divert however much wort you need into the prop tank.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    374
    Transfer on top - Less risk with less transfers. I'd only prop separately if I needed the yeast before the large tank was empty, or if I was collecting yeast for more than one pitch. Just my $0.02

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Posts
    119

    Yeast multiple

    [QUOTE=JDN;223572]I routinely prop up 6bbl pitches to 60bbls in my 5bbl FVs. Brew into a 5bbl pilot tank with a scaled down version of the 30bbl production recipe. 24 hours later cell count is sufficient for 60bbls. Brew two 30bbl batches back to back- push the whole 5bbl tank into the 60 with the first 30bbl batch. I only aerate on the first 30bbl batch. Works great.

    JDN,

    Do you believe you're getting 10x yeast cells in 24 hours or 5x?
    A 5x multiple seems like industry rule of thumb. However, I've seen a post here and some evidence that 10x is achievable by using aeration and maybe going out 48-72 hours.

    Thanks for your response.
    Scott Swygert
    Founder - Honky Tonk Brewing Co.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Williamsburg, VA
    Posts
    28
    Hey Scott,

    I'm usually around 10million cells/ml after 24 hours of the 6bbl prop batch and well passed the growth phase- usually about 2.5-3*P gravity drop on the prop batch at pitching. I aerate the prop batch a little high with O2 at 2 liters/minute during the knockout- no additional oxygenation in the tank.

    Its such healthy and active yeast that it is plenty for 60bbls the next day. I aerate the first 30bbl knockout but not the second one. Usually have terminal gravity on the full batch within 5 days for a 14.5P beer.
    Jonathan Newman
    The Virginia Beer Company
    Williamsburg, VA

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