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How to reduce high yeast counts in FV?

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  • How to reduce high yeast counts in FV?

    Hello
    We are a micro in UK that has been brewing for about 18 months. My commercial experience is limited to having spent days assisting others, a few formal courses, and my own (steep) learning curve over the course of the last year or so.

    I am looking for guidance on an issue I am experiencing with Windsor yeast. I will point out that I have contacted Lallemand (locally in UK) and they are being extremely helpful - no complaints. The yeast is doing exactly what it should be doing, and the ale is great, but I wanted to know if there are any 'experiences' that might give me ideas as to how to overcome the issue.

    The brew is a cask-conditioned porter (4.7% ABV).

    A little on my tanks. My fermenters are pre-used open tall, cylindrical, flat-bottomed with lid. It is not possible to dump the yeast.

    Okay, pre-amble done. The issue is that the low flocc and low sedimentation rate of Windsor, means that I am leaving the beer in the FV for an extended time. When it comes to casking, my yeast counts are, initially, still way too high. Also, the count 'gradient' between the first runnings (very high) and the last runnings (very low) is very wide ranging. This causes problems estimating the amount of cask finings to use.

    All in all, I am managing to produce an excellent porter - to which I attribute a lot to Windsor yeast. But, I am unhappy having to instruct my customers to give the casks an extended stillage to ensure that the ale has cleared and is in prime condition for serving.

    Has anyone had this type of problem and, if so, what steps have you taken/would you take to reduce the yeast count prior to casking, either mechanical or by fining, to even out the yeast count gradient in the FV?

    Thank you in advance.

  • #2
    I suggested a brewery try Windsor once. The beer flavour was great. Unfortunately I hadn't noticed it was non flocculent. So it didn't clear on fining the first time round. We fined in FV, took masses of yeast off, and then fined again in cask. Amazingly it worked pretty well. Obviously higher losses than usual but for what turned out to be a one off trial, not too disastrous. This brewery couldn't cool in FV that well - about 7 deg C was all it seemed to be able to do, so if you can cool to zero or even minus one before fining both times, this should improve settling.
    dick

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    • #3
      Thank you for the response, Dick. Most appreciated.

      Originally posted by dick murton View Post
      I suggested a brewery try Windsor once. The beer flavour was great.
      Yes, the flavour is great, particularly for those darker beers. This is why I want to continue using Windsor.

      A supplementary question, if I may:
      Originally posted by dick murton View Post
      We fined in FV, took masses of yeast off, and then fined again in cask.
      I am curious, how did you add/mix the finings (was this isinglass?) in the FV without disturbing what had settled already?


      I should add that I am going to try a conditioning tank (Porter Lancastrian style); leave the beer to clear and use CBC 1 to condition in the cask. But, I am still curious about the FV fining.
      Thanks
      Last edited by Bruweasel; 02-19-2018, 03:34 AM. Reason: Additional comment on conditioning tank

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      • #4
        We ran off as much solid yeast as we could, and then simply stirred in the normal amount of auxillary finings, left it for a few minutes, then stirred in isinglass finings. Left it to settle for 24 hours, removed the yeast and then added more auxillary finings to the FV, before racking it into casks, where the normal amount of isinglass was added again. I would have like to have done a finings optimisation trial after the first finings, but some of the beer was needed for a home grown festival that weekend, so we didn't have the luxury of a spare day. It worked pretty well, probably not as bright as the normal SO4 / SO5 beers, but drinkable. Try tilting the FVs towards the outlet to give say a 5 to 10 degree slope, for better first yeast removal, and a thimble / upstand for the second yeast removal. One of the local breweries has their FVs like yours permanently tilted like this - no thimble is used. You just have to take a long time dribbling the settled yeast off the bottom, and in several batches.
        dick

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        • #5
          Originally posted by dick murton View Post
          Try tilting the FVs towards the outlet to give say a 5 to 10 degree slope, for better first yeast removal, and a thimble / upstand for the second yeast removal. One of the local breweries has their FVs like yours permanently tilted like this - no thimble is used. You just have to take a long time dribbling the settled yeast off the bottom, and in several batches.
          Tilt and dribble - this is exactly where experience comes in and why I am grateful for yours. Thanks. I have an engineering company next door who could make me a long-handled upstand.

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