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  • Whirlpool addition with partially cooled wort after boil

    Evening Folks;

    Has anyone tried cooling the wort to a lower temperature before adding whirlpool hops?
    My thoughts are if the wort cooled to a temp of 70º-80ºC (158º-176ºF)
    Then add hops;
    Whirlpool 15 min, rest 15 min
    Transfer to FV.
    Would there be enough effect to gain a better aroma and flavour from the hops using this method?

    I also plan to dry hop, but I find that the great aroma and flavour really does not last when dry hopping, and frankly the volume yield after dry hopping sucks...so my thoughts are to go back to a more old school mentality of adding a lot of hops in the whirlpool, and hope I need to add less hops I dry hop with.

    Curious to hear your thoughts on this.

    Thanks

  • #2
    We do 170 degree whirlpools standard for our hoppy beers. We like it, seem to get better aroma and dont have to worry about getting too much unknown bitterness from whirlpool additions. I definitely wouldnt say it is a substitute for dry hopping though.

    Originally posted by dvarga View Post
    Evening Folks;

    Has anyone tried cooling the wort to a lower temperature before adding whirlpool hops?
    My thoughts are if the wort cooled to a temp of 70º-80ºC (158º-176ºF)
    Then add hops;
    Whirlpool 15 min, rest 15 min
    Transfer to FV.
    Would there be enough effect to gain a better aroma and flavour from the hops using this method?

    I also plan to dry hop, but I find that the great aroma and flavour really does not last when dry hopping, and frankly the volume yield after dry hopping sucks...so my thoughts are to go back to a more old school mentality of adding a lot of hops in the whirlpool, and hope I need to add less hops I dry hop with.

    Curious to hear your thoughts on this.

    Thanks

    Comment


    • #3
      Yes

      We even jimmied the liquoring back to help cool the gyle down before adding hops. Chilled through heat exchange to get the beer temperature down too. Old head brewer swore by it! We did not go below 80 degrees though.

      Comment


      • #4
        Are you whirlpooling in your boil kettle or do you have a separate WP?

        Originally posted by Junkyard View Post
        We do 170 degree whirlpools standard for our hoppy beers. We like it, seem to get better aroma and dont have to worry about getting too much unknown bitterness from whirlpool additions. I definitely wouldnt say it is a substitute for dry hopping though.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by BrewerJake View Post
          Are you whirlpooling in your boil kettle or do you have a separate WP?

          Ive been interested in trying cooler WP additions but cant figure out a safe way to do it. We have a 3 vessel (M/L, kettle, WP) setup and when we pull from the kettle we can only pull from the center drain and go into the WP. I can restart the WP but it seems like pulling from WP into heatex only to go back into WP would agitate the trub/hops and get sucked into the heatex. Only other wayI can see to so it is go kettle, wp, heatex, back into kettle, then to wp .... which seems like a ridiculous process - but is that what you have to do to control WP temps with a setup like this or am I missing an easy button answer here?

          Comment


          • #6
            We have a dedicated whirlpool, we transfer from kettle through our heat ex up through the bottom of the whirpool at 150 till we get half way and then transfer the rest through the tangential to get it spinning. Usually ends up 170-175

            Comment


            • #7
              Not sure of your setup so not sure whats practical-

              DIY a cooling jacket onto WP if possible.
              DIY a cooling-capable wort grant
              Install side/tangential port on kettle
              Get yourself one of those shell and tube(?) style chillers that are hard to clog and run it to WP

              I vote for tube chiller.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by brain medicine View Post
                Not sure of your setup so not sure whats practical-

                DIY a cooling jacket onto WP if possible.
                DIY a cooling-capable wort grant
                Install side/tangential port on kettle
                Get yourself one of those shell and tube(?) style chillers that are hard to clog and run it to WP

                I vote for tube chiller.
                Surely that will mess up your glycol sytem. The return will be super hot!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Brewberosa View Post
                  Surely that will mess up your glycol sytem. The return will be super hot!
                  I would guess you'd want to use city water for this stage. No need for glycol at that temperature. Someone (Junkyard, maybe?) recently posted a photo of his tube-and shell chiller. DIY, two stage, made from lengths of copper pipe.

                  Regards,
                  Mike Sharp

                  Edit: Here it is: http://discussions.probrewer.com/sho...504#post230504

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You could use glycol or city water. City water is easier, no need to worry about temp pickup. But with glycol you would have to dial in the flows to get your WP to right temp, only. 30-40f knockdown or so.

                    Probably safest to turn off all other cooling while you knockout to WP. And then while you run the WP your chiller can bring the glycol temp back down. No different than having a two stage chiller really.

                    But yeah, like mike says, city water is easier and safer.

                    I saw that homemade shell and tube post a while back. Looks feasible. Although I think you really want stainless and not copper. Copper is associated with some oxidative reactions in wort and hops.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I've played around with taking less wort pre-boil, then adding 15% of my wort volume in cold water to my whirlpool before sending in the wort from the boil kettle (i.e. instead of taking 25 hl pre-boil, I only take 21.5 hl then add 3.5 hl of water at 36 F (2 C) to the whirlpool). With 1 hl of boil off, I'm sending 20.5 hl of wort at 212 F (100 C) to mix with 3.5hl of wort at 36 F (2 C) which gets me down to ~185 F. There should be minimal isomerization at this temp. Water going into my CLT is sterile so I don't have any infection concerns, but honestly 185 F (85 C) is well above pasteurization temp and the wort spends at least 25 mins in the WP before it hits the HX.

                      Anthony

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Are you worried about HSA from the O2 in the cold water? Or is it deaerated?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          +1 to the idea - that is what we do.

                          According to several white papers, isomerization stops around 170 F - so all of our whirlpool hop additions for NEIPAs or IPAs are sub 170 F. Usually 2lb/BBL whirlpool hops and 3.5lb/BBL dry hops during the bio-transformation window.
                          Ryan
                          Viridian Brewing Company
                          [Brewery-In-Planning]

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Whirlpool addition with partially cooled wort

                            Thanks for the input.

                            Did not think about that some of you have a separate whirlpool.
                            We do not; however, we have a side port higher up on the bottom of the Kettle/Whirlpool where we can draw off wort to cool.
                            It's a standard Specific 2 vessel brewhouse, probably almost everyone have worked on something similar to this.
                            We use cold liquor to cool the wort.

                            I think we will cool the wort to 75ºC (just below 170ºF), then add our whirlpool addition, and whirlpool/rest as per usual.

                            Once again, thanks for your advice.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by JJBREWCO View Post
                              Are you worried about HSA from the O2 in the cold water? Or is it deaerated?

                              WE are also thinking of adding cold liquor to the kettle at the end of boil before sending to the whirlpool.
                              Our water isnt de-areated -
                              What is HSA? can you explain the issue?
                              Thanks

                              Comment

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