so long story short- PGE the local utility is trying to tell us they want us to put a transformer in the sidewalk to power the new brewpub. Any load over 75kva requires this apparently. They only supply 208V three phase. But since our power is underground we need to trench into the street, and then maybe all the way to the nearest intersection if no closer manhole/vaults exist. we are in the middle of the block on a major street, with 24/7 bus lines, subway underneath, etc. just the transformer could be $100k. The very idea of even approaching that full project cost estimate terrifies me.
So, thats the predicament. I'm cutting down power needs everywhere i can. No more HLT elements. (92amps, for 33kva) No more dual stage knockout. etc. etc. I also noticed that our Kva load calcs are lower when using 1 phase. (something about line to line three phase? 208V, not 230V?) So abandoning the HLT elements and downsizing the glcyol unit could put us under the 75kva limit. So without the HLT, refrigeration is now our biggest energy load.
Our load for fermenters is about 23-25k btus. No brites. But we will have serving tanks in a 24x17x13H walk in, which calcs at about 17k btu. And a small kitchen walkin, call it 3k btu. So i was thinking we could get some efficiency savings if we went with a chiller to handle all those loads, instead of 3 different units. If so we're looking at about 45k btu.
Now if basically all cooling is now running off one unit, i want dual compressors for redundancy/safety. But of the few that ive seen, 5+5 or 10hp is the smallest. which is like 80k btu. alot more than we need. (expansion is extremely unlikely at this location, bordering on impossible).
so im wondering if its possible to get two smaller units, say 3 or 4hp each, and run them/wire them in such a way that they effectively act like a dual unit. one in master mode, one in backup, and the ability to swap them every month or two so we dont burn them out as quickly.
im trying to think it out for having two separate units tied together, a base chiller, and a booster. the booster would pull from the main trunk line when the base reservoir gets too warm, and then chill and dump back into the main reservoir? or via an HX? but that doesnt sound like you could swap base and booster units very easily. the other idea is that since this will be a rooftop installation we could have remote units up top with a separate reservoir either on the roof or in the walkin cooler below. but extra pumping would add a bit of heat so not sure that's a big deal or not.
would also like to get some hot side gas recovery abilities in order to heat the HLT. i'll look into getting a custom dual unit built, but given the prices on the new 5+5 dual units, we might end up just having to settle for the DIY approach. so if anyone has some other ideas im all ears at this point.
So, thats the predicament. I'm cutting down power needs everywhere i can. No more HLT elements. (92amps, for 33kva) No more dual stage knockout. etc. etc. I also noticed that our Kva load calcs are lower when using 1 phase. (something about line to line three phase? 208V, not 230V?) So abandoning the HLT elements and downsizing the glcyol unit could put us under the 75kva limit. So without the HLT, refrigeration is now our biggest energy load.
Our load for fermenters is about 23-25k btus. No brites. But we will have serving tanks in a 24x17x13H walk in, which calcs at about 17k btu. And a small kitchen walkin, call it 3k btu. So i was thinking we could get some efficiency savings if we went with a chiller to handle all those loads, instead of 3 different units. If so we're looking at about 45k btu.
Now if basically all cooling is now running off one unit, i want dual compressors for redundancy/safety. But of the few that ive seen, 5+5 or 10hp is the smallest. which is like 80k btu. alot more than we need. (expansion is extremely unlikely at this location, bordering on impossible).
so im wondering if its possible to get two smaller units, say 3 or 4hp each, and run them/wire them in such a way that they effectively act like a dual unit. one in master mode, one in backup, and the ability to swap them every month or two so we dont burn them out as quickly.
im trying to think it out for having two separate units tied together, a base chiller, and a booster. the booster would pull from the main trunk line when the base reservoir gets too warm, and then chill and dump back into the main reservoir? or via an HX? but that doesnt sound like you could swap base and booster units very easily. the other idea is that since this will be a rooftop installation we could have remote units up top with a separate reservoir either on the roof or in the walkin cooler below. but extra pumping would add a bit of heat so not sure that's a big deal or not.
would also like to get some hot side gas recovery abilities in order to heat the HLT. i'll look into getting a custom dual unit built, but given the prices on the new 5+5 dual units, we might end up just having to settle for the DIY approach. so if anyone has some other ideas im all ears at this point.
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