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Schedule 80 PVC for glycol and header size

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  • Schedule 80 PVC for glycol and header size

    I know PVC is not the preferred material for a glycol loop but is it really that bad? I was planning on using Aquatherm, and I still might if the price isn't too much higher than SCH 80 PVC. I'm designing, sourcing, installing, insulating, and maintaining this loop myself and I'll most likely need fittings that I didn't think of in the design. It will be easier to get PVC fittings at one of the 4 nearby stores in just a few minutes but it might take 2 days to get the Aquatherm parts from the one supplier that's 30 min away and doesn't keep much inventory. I spoke to someone in my area who has been designing and installing glycol systems for brewerys for 12 years (there are a lot of brewerys in my area) and he only uses PVC and said some have been in service the entire 12 years with no issues. He did admit that SCH 40 does get brittle after several years and cracks when cut making repairs and expansion dificult but he's had no issues with SCH 80. Also, what size supply and return should I go with 1.5" or 2" for one 10BBL and four 7BBLs? I also want to be able to expand someday, possibly up to five 15BBLs. How do I determine what size pipe to use??

    Thanks, Mike

  • #2
    I use 2" schedule 80 as the header for our four 7 bbl feremeters and one brite. We've only been open about a year and a half, but so we haven't had any problems with it.

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    • #3
      Hi mike,
      Schedule 80 works just fine. As far as header size, that is determined by the size of outbound/ return of you chiller unit. Mine has 4 inch in and out. So I have a 4 inch header. Most tanks that I have seen have either 3/4 or 1 inch npt connections for the jackets, so size your branches to your tanks. A few words of advice: avoid tees and 90s, they reduce flow rate, use Y's and 45s instead. Install isolation valves on every branch and at multiple points in the header, so if you have to make a repair or swap out a tank you won't have to drain the whole system. If you plan to expand by adding more tanks, install the Y's and ball valves now, rather than trying to cut them in later. Make sure to flush the entire system, including the tank jackets with water, small bits of pipe burrs and welding slag from the jackets will gum up your syliniods. Slope your header lines and install air bleeder valves at the highest points, air bubbles in the line will reduce flow. Install a Y strainer with a strong magnet in it just before the reservoir return to catch any crap that you didn't flush out. And lastly, insulate the he'll out of everything.
      Hope this helps.

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      • #4
        Thanks for the advice. My chiller has 1" out and 1 1/4" in. The guy that I mentioned earlier who does the Glycol said a rule of thumb is I can go one size larger than the return which will be 1 1/2". I had already planned on adding the "Y" strainer and isolation valves but the magnet is a good ides. I'm glad to hear SCH 80 works fine. That makes thing much simpler for me.

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        • #5
          It can be useful to plumb petcocks at the bottom points of your tank drops as well which can help drain a tank of glycol if it needs to be serviced. Depending on the location of your chiller and header it could be a good idea to add a fitting to pump in any recycled glycol. I like the motorized ball valves (Belimo) over the solenoids because they are less likely to get obstructed, although Red Hats have been solid as long as you pre flush as stated. Don’t overlook the strainer and magnet.

          It should be noted that the impact resistance of PVC is substantially reduced at typical glycol operating temps. PVC is brittle when cold, and I have seen a second hand picture or two from colleagues of some breweries that had a line crack. Not pretty. It’s one of those things....it’s all fine until it isn’t. I’m an old school copper guy myself, but have used PEX, PVC, and whatever special plastic GF+ has with good results. Insulation is key.

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          • #6
            Cool Fit

            I just quoted out cool fit and the price is much lower than most people think. The prices that are listed online are wayyyy inflated. The GF reps quoted me first at 50% of the advertised price. I got it even lower than that. They will also come train you how to install it.

            When I ran the numbers on schedule 80 and the insulation I would need, aquatherm, and cool fit, the cool fit ended up being maybe 10% more in price but half the install time and no issues long term.

            I would reach out to GF and see about cool fit. Worst that can happen is a ridiculous quote and you walk away. Or you could get a sweet deal like I did.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Fishweir View Post
              I just quoted out cool fit and the price is much lower than most people think. The prices that are listed online are wayyyy inflated. The GF reps quoted me first at 50% of the advertised price. I got it even lower than that. They will also come train you how to install it.

              When I ran the numbers on schedule 80 and the insulation I would need, aquatherm, and cool fit, the cool fit ended up being maybe 10% more in price but half the install time and no issues long term.

              I would reach out to GF and see about cool fit. Worst that can happen is a ridiculous quote and you walk away. Or you could get a sweet deal like I did.
              I just sent GF an email for a quote. If the price ends up being that close to SCH 80 I'll definitely go with cool-fit. Did they throw in tool usage or are you going to have to rent them from GF?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by baer19d View Post
                I just sent GF an email for a quote. If the price ends up being that close to SCH 80 I'll definitely go with cool-fit. Did they throw in tool usage or are you going to have to rent them from GF?
                They will come to you and train you how to install the product. Its a 3 hour class and then you are a certified installer. They give you all the tools you will need. Deburring device, bevel tool, cement and solvents etc. We arent installing until August or so and the two reps offered to come to town and help us install it. GF is working hard to get peoples business with this product.

                You cant buy directly from GF, you have to go through a distributor (they will help you get one). Even going through a middle man, i was able to get less than 50% list price, so that tells you they have HUGE overhead on this stuff.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Fishweir View Post
                  They will come to you and train you how to install the product. Its a 3 hour class and then you are a certified installer. They give you all the tools you will need. Deburring device, bevel tool, cement and solvents etc. We arent installing until August or so and the two reps offered to come to town and help us install it. GF is working hard to get peoples business with this product.

                  You cant buy directly from GF, you have to go through a distributor (they will help you get one). Even going through a middle man, i was able to get less than 50% list price, so that tells you they have HUGE overhead on this stuff.
                  I spoke with a GF rep on Friday, I think the same one you're working with, and he's going to give me a quote. Honestly, I hope the price works out because it's certaily a superior product than PVC. We're needing to install ours this month so time might be an issue.

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                  • #10
                    So back to my question of header size, since the chiller I have now has an 1 1/4" return I should use a 1 1/2" header, according to the guy I mentioned earlier. What if I upgrade to a larger chiller and fermenters in the future, will the 1 1/2" header be sufficient? What if the new chiller has a 2" supply/return, would the 1 1/2" header sill work?

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