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Thread: Vorschiessen

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Eureka, CA
    Posts
    4

    Vorschiessen

    Greetings all,

    This is a process question having to do with wort separation. I currently operate an automated 120bbl Rolec lauter system. There’s a step in the recipe called “vorschiessen” that I have no experience with and can’t seem to get a clear explanation of what it does. The step falls before the wort clarification (vorlauf) step. Specifically, during the step, with the pump running at 100% the system will open and close the inlet recirculation valve (used for vorlauf), every thirty seconds. We’ve had problems with our runoffs in the past and i’m wondering if this step is excessively compacting the bed.

    Can someone please explain vorschiessen to me?

    Thank you for your time.

    Cheers,

    Jon Ward

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Southeast, PA
    Posts
    41

    Vorschiessenlassen

    I found a german/english/french brewing specific terminology book randomly in a shop...

    it states 'clarifying drainage, circulating wort' so according to this it seems to describe as vorlauf or at least the start of the drainage

    vorlauf actually seems defined in this as first runnings.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Moab, Utah
    Posts
    496

    Negative Engineering Trends

    Clarifying the Drainage is akin to " Setting the Filter Bed " in American terms.
    I find it interesting that you are using the term " Recipe " seemingly with reference to automation.
    What we are seeing across the board, is Technology being set up with automation that is doing what should be controlled by human intervention and more levels of manual control because there are too many variables.
    Its being done in other industries and will be seen " too late " to be a dangerous affair because Engineers seem to think its a good idea to attempt to design around common sense, which is also way short in the current times.
    I'd say your hunches are leading you in the correct direction based in the intel given.
    Warren Turner
    Industrial Engineering Technician
    HVACR-Electrical Systems Specialist
    Moab Brewery
    " No Cell Phone Zone."

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Chesterfield, UK
    Posts
    1,787
    This step is to try and produce a surge into the runoff pipes, carrying the debris that has inevitably dropped through the slots in the plates, and the fines very close to the bottom of the bed by running the wort transfer pump at maximum speed for, as you correctly describe, just a few seconds. The pump stops to minimise bed compaction, or actually to let it relax a little and open up again, before repeating a few times. This is s fairly recent development, not sure exactly how long, probably developed by Steinecker or Huppmann, and copied by others. IF too drastic and you have a menu you can alter, try reducing the numbers, or even zero them, and see what difference it makes to runoff and wort clarity. You may want / need to extend the vorlauf time or flow rate a little to help compensate.
    dick

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Eureka, CA
    Posts
    4

    Much appreciated

    Thanks everyone for the feedback. Gave me some things to think about.

    Cheers,

    Jon

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Lexington, Virginia
    Posts
    71

    Pulsing / Vorschiessen

    As mentioned above, this step in the Recipe or program recirculates the wort to start settling the bed and cleaning all runoff pipes. When collecting first wort from a heavy load batch with more than 6,500 lbs of grain a message may appear indicating Deep Cut, which is when the Differential Pressure is not balance, we slow the pump depending on the case to 40% running until it normalize, it may take a long time to finish this step.
    You may also check a button on the Lauter screen that says Lautering, probably the program is being requested to go very fast at different wort volume collections to the pre run tank or wort kettle.

    Name:  Vorschiessen.jpg
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    Last edited by Fausto Yu-Shan; 09-28-2018 at 10:51 AM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    9
    German brewer lingo for "blast some out into the drain to clear the line out"

    Before Vorlauf it probably means to push out air/water from the line so your pump can operate smoothly.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    951
    So is this step like mini underlettings during the runoff, only to the drain versus backflush?
    Joel Halbleib
    COO / Zymurgist
    Goodwood Brewing Co
    636 East Main St
    Louisville, KY
    goodwood.beer

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Lexington, Virginia
    Posts
    71

    Lauter Tun Picture

    If you see the picture, what Step 14 Vorschiessen (from previous post) does is to recirculate the wort through the valve 07V0101 in green, than through the pump 07SICP0101 at 100% speed (in green indicates 60%), Valve 07RV0101 at a flow of 100% (in green indicates 10%) and 07V0105 which opens and close every 10 seconds for 3 minutes (step duration).
    Once it finishes it moves to the Step 15 Lauter Rest.

    This picture was taken today so it does not match the information presented on 9/28/18.

    Name:  Lauter Tun (2).jpg
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