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Thread: Please help with troubleshooting

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2006

    Please help with troubleshooting

    Hi All we are having problem with a beer changing colors in a can but not in a bottle and not in every can so far just Ball cans with heat shrunk label sleeves. I will lay the history out below and we also have a lab working on this but if your collective wisdom can provide any help please share your two cents.

    So here it is.
    Picture from left to right
    1) The Pitcher- is Batch 1202 on tap Just taped 11-2-2018, color correct
    2) Can- was bought at store in town we do not date code could be any batch between 1171 and 1193
    3) Bottle-Batch #1193 filled on 10-30-2018 on bottling line, color correct
    4) Can- Batch # 1193 Canned 10-31-2018 on canning line with increased CO2 purge not pasteurized, color dark
    5) Can- Batch #1193 Canned on 10-31-2018 on canning line with increased CO2 purge, pasteurized 15 minutes(P15)
    6) Can with silver top half – Batch #1153 canned on 5-15-2018 pasteurized twice, different can from others it is a Rexam can that we labeled ourselves, color correct
    7) Can- different company bought at store, color looks fine

    No color change in tanks
    No color change in kegs
    No color change in Bottles

    Same sanitizer is used on everything PPA from Brew City Solutions in Milwaukee

    Besides batch #1153 that we labeled ourselves on our labeler in Rexam cans, the other batched were canned in ball cans that the labels were heat shrieked sleeves.

    We think possibly the heat shrink might be affecting the can liners or difference in can company can liners, maybe oxidation, we just don’t know. Matt mentioned he had an idea of where to start testing so I will mail out the bottles from 1193 as your control and cans from 1193 to test any information or anything to rule out would be great. Doing more can trials on Wednesday I will let you know the results I get.

    Micro is coming back clean white labs did our independent full micro and I have in-house plates that are clean.

    No off flavors or aroma in a blind taste and we had multiple people do many the dark cans taste like draft and/or the cans that are the correct color.

    Same ingredients malt and hops and yeast through all batches.

    We have one other beer a light that had some increase in color back in 2017 but nothing to this degree but in a lighter shaded of the same spectrum, it was in crown cans, with normal canning operations, pasteurized (P15), the both beers only share Pilsen malt in common, different yeast strains, different hops, one is filtered twice one is not filtered at all. The light though has a regular version of itself and it is very similar in almost every way really just a few hundred pounds of malt difference and we have never seen color change with that beer in cans.

    Hazy Can Trials
    Batch # Date Packed Can Type Label Type Pasteurized Action Result
    1153 5/15/2018 rexam sticker, labeler twice canned normal operations color correct
    1185 9/11/2018 ball sleeve no canned normal operations dark
    1193 9/30/2018 bottle no label no filled on bottling line normal operation color correct
    1193 9/31/2018 ball sleeve no, 17cs canned with increased CO2 purge (60PSI), rest normal dark
    1193 9/31/2018 ball sleeve yes, 2cs canned with increased CO2 purge (60PSI) , rest normal dark

    Thanks in advance everyone any help would be great. Doing more can trials tomorrow.

    Jamie M. Baertsch
    Wisconsin Dells Brewing
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Louisville, KY
    You got quite a bit of solids floating in those beers. I don't know how well cloudy brews age as I do not have any in our archive to look at. But I do know oxygen can cause discoloration. Is it possible when you increased the CO2 purge you are drawing in more oxygen, or you have a leak in your CO2 line and the flow rate is kicking in the venturi effect?
    Joel Halbleib
    COO / Zymurgist
    Goodwood Brewing Co
    636 East Main St
    Louisville, KY

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Livermore, CA
    What kind of canning line do you have? Most of the smaller ones are notoriously bad at keeping oxygen out, though the manufacturers will report good average numbers for the equipment. What it usually comes down to is that the machine is not built to protect the cans from airflow while they are being filled. Are you checking for package oxygen? If not, you need to start doing that ASAP. That amount of color change is likely due to oxygen, the fact that you don't see it in bottle or keg is even more evidence to it being something in the canning process. Unlikely that it is the shrink sleeve damaging the liner, you would just end up with a metallic tasting beer if that were the case.

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