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Thread: smoke grain in mht

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
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    smoke grain in mht

    First let me picture my equipment and set up. I have 3 tanks stout stile ( same as the stout but bought direct to china) I have 4 resistors of 5500w like these

    https://www.amazon.com/Dernord-Immer...rp_1?_encoding

    I have run so far 3 batch. The control unit is a bcs462 that I build and control almost everything. First batch a heavy wheat 80 gallons, yes heavy in the excitement I forgot to add rice hull and 2 row beside when I milled the grain I had it in the close position. But rookie mistake I have to write down the process and procedure. Coming from a control industry I should known better.

    Well when I run 4 resistors it smoke really fast so I went to 2 resistor and a burner. Really slow ramping up. The outcome a smokey wheat that is been age in a pinot noir barrel. Taste super. What I found beside the stuck mash was a lot of burn grain trap in the resistor.

    So second batch a full fledge heferweisen with all the missing grains adjuncts etc. and a bit more water. This time I raise temp to 130 with the 4 res. but when the grain went in had to drop to 2 and a burner. had to use my oar (great to move 200 pounds of grain) and constant move it.

    The we went for a third batch another wheat this time I could only run when the grain went in 1 resistor and a burner. As you know it took for ever.

    I spread the legs and will try in a couple of weeks to see if this still smoke the grain. The constant stuck mash or slow transfer I beleived is the pump but that is for another thread. Is the power too much 5.5k times 4? Or theripple style resistor vs a straight one is the cause? Have zillion of pic if any one want to see the setup. Thanks
    Chuck Peterson

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2017
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    Apex NC
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    It's not at all clear what you are doing. Post pictures and clear descriptions of your equipment, and tell us exactly what you're trying to achieve. Are you trying to do a decoction mash, moving the mash between the mash tun and either your hot liquor tank or kettle? Having mash in contact with elements will cause burning, there is pretty much no way to avoid this. If you want to step mash you need a RIMS or HERMS setup.

    Assuming that your kettle and HLT are both all electric (you talk about a burner, what is this for?) you should have four elements in your boil kettle, and either two or four elements in your hot liquor tank depending on your particular setup. Your mash tun should not have any elements in it.

    Did you order the wort grant for the mash tun? You should be running out of the mash tun into the grant, then pumping out of the grant into the kettle once your mash is done. If you are trying to pump straight out of the mash tun then this will cause your mash to stick.

  3. #3
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    Aug 2014
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    Puerto rico
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    I am also confused

    Quote Originally Posted by PSkelton View Post
    It's not at all clear what you are doing. Post pictures and clear descriptions of your equipment, and tell us exactly what you're trying to achieve. Are you trying to do a decoction mash, moving the mash between the mash tun and either your hot liquor tank or kettle? Having mash in contact with elements will cause burning, there is pretty much no way to avoid this. If you want to step mash you need a RIMS or HERMS setup.

    Assuming that your kettle and HLT are both all electric (you talk about a burner, what is this for?) you should have four elements in your boil kettle, and either two or four elements in your hot liquor tank depending on your particular setup. Your mash tun should not have any elements in it.

    Did you order the wort grant for the mash tun? You should be running out of the mash tun into the grant, then pumping out of the grant into the kettle once your mash is done. If you are trying to pump straight out of the mash tun then this will cause your mash to stick.
    Pictures will follow. I was trying to do a step mash As I normally did in my brutus , I thought recirculating the liquid and the grain I should be ok. But you are right there will be always contact. So perhaps I should go to plan b of going up to 201 and then introduce the grain.

    all my system is electric 4 resistor per tank. The jet burner I have it as a plan b if the resistor fail or have the problem I mentioned. I have the wort grant I use it once. unless i did something wrong I didn't see the benefit to it. The pump I got if chinese with out any VFD. so for CIP is great for recirculating or creating any suction is useless. I have another one with VFD coming my way.

    So as you can see I have learning curve,equipment issues and every thing murphy is sending my way.

  4. #4
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    pictures

    i will try to up load them here if not i will like a fie from the cloud
    Attached Images Attached Images      
    Last edited by theaviator; 11-28-2018 at 02:39 AM. Reason: add picture

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    Kent, WA
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    Quote Originally Posted by theaviator View Post
    Pictures will follow. I was trying to do a step mash As I normally did in my brutus , I thought recirculating the liquid and the grain I should be ok. But you are right there will be always contact. So perhaps I should go to plan b of going up to 201 and then introduce the grain.

    all my system is electric 4 resistor per tank. The jet burner I have it as a plan b if the resistor fail or have the problem I mentioned. I have the wort grant I use it once. unless i did something wrong I didn't see the benefit to it. The pump I got if chinese with out any VFD. so for CIP is great for recirculating or creating any suction is useless. I have another one with VFD coming my way.

    So as you can see I have learning curve,equipment issues and every thing murphy is sending my way.
    Yes, if the elements/resistors are in contact with the grain, you'll burn something up for sure. You might be able to get away with heating the mash tun that way if the elements/resistors are below the false bottom, but your heating rate will have to be very slow. But honestly, you don't really need to step mash, right? That's common with homebrew rigs, but it's much harder to do when the volume goes up. Just heat your strike water to the right temp, and dough in. You can skip the mashout, or you can add hot (even boiling) water to raise mash temp.

    The wort grant is useful if your kettle is doubling as an HLT. I think it's useful to lauter into a grant in any case, so you can control the flow rate without worrying about pumping to the kettle. The pump can run full speed, and start/stop as the grant fills up.

    When you say 3 vessels, you mean Kettle, Mash Tun and Wort Grant, right? That is, no dedicated HLT?

    Edit: Never mind about the HLT, I see it in the photos. Still, I'd use the grant, especially since you don't have a VFD for your pump.

  6. #6
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    Thumbs up thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by rdcpro View Post
    Yes, if the elements/resistors are in contact with the grain, you'll burn something up for sure. You might be able to get away with heating the mash tun that way if the elements/resistors are below the false bottom, but your heating rate will have to be very slow. But honestly, you don't really need to step mash, right? That's common with homebrew rigs, but it's much harder to do when the volume goes up. Just heat your strike water to the right temp, and dough in. You can skip the mashout, or you can add hot (even boiling) water to raise mash temp.

    The wort grant is useful if your kettle is doubling as an HLT. I think it's useful to lauter into a grant in any case, so you can control the flow rate without worrying about pumping to the kettle. The pump can run full speed, and start/stop as the grant fills up.

    When you say 3 vessels, you mean Kettle, Mash Tun and Wort Grant, right? That is, no dedicated HLT?

    Edit: Never mind about the HLT, I see it in the photos. Still, I'd use the grant, especially since you don't have a VFD for your pump.


    thanks . I beleived that when I order my equipment long time ago I was fool by the sales guy. he even sold me a hop basket thta dont fit becasue I have resistors in the boil. so now when people see it I tell them is a texas ashtray. Any way I will follow your advice and some ideas i got and hopefully next batch comes easier. Now they only other problem is that I am starting my brewery and have been ask to over see another 20bbl new start up. But this time I have learn a thing or 2.

    thanks
    Chuck peterson

  7. #7
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    Oct 2017
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    western , NY
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    ok I think there a communication issue and misunderstanding about what is what.

    It sounds like you are trying to use the HLT or BK as the Mash tun? I have the same system bought direct from manufacturer and I also use 4 5500w elements in my taller 145 gallon boil kettle and shorter 125gallon HLT (grain does not go in either one only the mash tun with manway door in side it, that kettle should have no elements in it?) like others pointed out you need to use a herms or rims to maintain mash temps if its not insulated.

    How big and deep is tha hop basket that it hits the elements? They are way down low at the bottom of the kettle? It would have to be a massive basket? something doesnt add up here..
    The first picture you posted is in fact your boil kettle with the elements installed. grain is not supposed to go in here and should never contact these elements.
    BTW your temp probes are longer than they need to be.. its very easy to damage them like that. I already broke a shorter one by hitting it with a paddle.

    for recirculating through my rims I simply use a blichmann riptide pump and use the included flow control knob to adjust flow speed... works very well and only $200..I do not need or have the grant. I recirulate at 5gpm with this setup into a custom rims with 4ft of elements (4400w total) and it works very well I can raise the temp up to 5 degree in a single pass with very low watt density.

    those vfd pumps are crazy overkill for 3bbl.
    Last edited by augiedoggy; 12-31-2018 at 05:07 AM.

  8. #8
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    i am using the mash

    ok the problem was I got a mash tun with the4 elements. I didnt realise I needed a herms or burner. .then the hop basket es design for burner stove not elements. so they sit on the elements. My plan now is heat water close to the mashing temp. introduce grain, and with the hlt add some water to bring it up to correct temp. watching I dont screw up my ration of water in the mash. Then if needed will use a jet burner to keep temp. But my tanks holds the tem for a very long period. Since my vfd pump has not arrived. I manage to recirculate with a mash and it work fine. I m running batch 4 this weekend. let see how it works.

    thnks
    Charles

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    western , NY
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    did you request the elements in the MT? I have the same kettles as you from the same forum sponsor I assume and there is no elements in my mash tun? this would seem to me to be some sort of custom requested thing?

    Also can you post a picture of the hop basket? we are still using bags ourselves and are looking for other options. Most brewers using this setup heat the strike water for the mash in the HLT then transfer to the MT via pump.
    Last edited by augiedoggy; 01-02-2019 at 07:23 AM.

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