Plate and Frame Filter Techniques

[ibrewforyou]

i just took over operations of small brewpub. most of my beers are unfiltered but there are a few i like to filter with the plate and frame. i don't have much experience using it.
my questions arise after the system has been hooked up, sanitized and blown down....

how does everyone handle the pressures on the 2 tanks?
do you try and keep the 2 tanks and filter and hoses all at the same pressure?
it would make sense to me that the receiving tank should have a little less pressure than the fermenter and filter.

also my fermenters are in the back of the building and i have to transfer up front to the brite tanks in the glassed-in cooler up front. the problem is my transfer pipes go up through the ceiling and back down in the cooler. when i blow my pipes out it seems that i cannot get all that water out of them and some gets into the brite tanks.
the only think i can come up with is to leave the hose disconnected going into the brite tank (with valve on), open the pressurized fermenter to the filter, and open the valve at the end and let it run till beer flows then hook up to the brite tank. sounds like a strange practice to me though..

what is common practice when dealing with a situation like this?

[scott isham]

I have the same situation with transfer pipes in the ceiling. I have tee's with valves at the bottom of the serving tank and the racking arm of the fermenter. After sanitizing the serving tank, I push sanitizer out of the bottom of serving tank through the filter, hoses, and transfer pipes to the tee at the racking arm of the fermenter. I let it flow for a while, but not blow all of it out of the hoses and stuff. I then drain the remaining sanitizer out of the serving tank. I let the full hoses and filter set for a few minutes and then I open the racking arm and let the beer push out the sanitizer at the other end, the tee at the serving tank. When it changes from sanitizer to beer, close the one valve and open the valve to the serving tank. Does this make sense? It's really pretty simple, but I'm not sure I described it very well. I also push my beer with CO2, no pump, and I keep my fermenter at 15 psi and the serving tank at 10.

[ibrewforyou]

so i assume that 15 psi is enough pressure to push the beer through the filter
(plate and frame 10 pads, 2-3 microns) and up and over the ceiling through the transfer pipes into the serving tank.

the reason for pushing with CO2 rather than using a variable speed pump is just that it is gentler on the beer?

i'll try the tee at the tank and sewer the excess water that i can't get out of pipes.

[Zucker Bee]

the reason for pushing with CO2 rather than using a variable speed pump is just that it is gentler on the beer?

Personally, I can't tell. But I tried it yesterday; We had 3 jams! it saved us alot of time, pad$ and beer

PS: I'm referring to the reuse of filter sheets after a yeast jam, from the topic on previous page

Zb

[bootleg]

Filter Bleed question.

What sort of filter bleed is exceptable from a plate and frame?

We have a second hand one, and wondering if a new one would be much different?
Using pall k700 and K300, 10 sheets 40x40, wetting the pads and flushing with hot water for 5 mins before fully tightening the screw.
We are loosing in drip / bleed around 1 gallon per BBL of filtered beer, no matter how much more it is compressed. (filter pads are not clogged, beer is filtering fine)

Is this standard for a plate and frame?

Thinking of looking at a closed system, lenticular or cartridge filters to save on beer.

Any ideas re. stopping bleed? or would a new plate and frame sort this out?

Cheers

[Michael Murphy]

Hi Bootleg, I found that the filter will bleed much more. if you dont tighten the plates as much as you can before you wet them. So before I had a pneumatic closing system I used a long tube and cranked the plates tight as humanly possible before running water through.... I noticed a big difference on loss

[beermkr]

Hi Bootleg, I found that the filter will bleed much more. if you dont tighten the plates as much as you can before you wet them. So before I had a pneumatic closing system I used a long tube and cranked the plates tight as humanly possible before running water through.... I noticed a big difference on loss

You are the MAN! I tried this today and I expect it cut my side losses by 80%. I actually had a pretty great filter day today and rolled 2 10bbl batches through in like 2 hours with HS1600 sheets!

R/

[bootleg]

Thanks Michael, I will try this today and see how it works out!

[jay_c]

Now, I filter into serving tanks. I have to keep an eye on foaming up in the tanks to see how much I have sent over. Does anyone have issues with foaming in the tanks or does it all go over completely massive foam up free?

[beermkr]

I try to keep 5-7 pounds of head pressure in the tank to combat any natural carbonation I have.

[Sauce]

I try to keep 5-7 pounds of head pressure in the tank to combat any natural carbonation I have.

Yea, run a "ballast" line - either a hose from CIP to CIP or tubing from your gas inlet on both tanks......5 to 7 psi in both tanks seems to work.

...think this was discussed earlier in this thread or another on filtering

[dick murton]

the only think i can come up with is to leave the hose disconnected going into the brite tank (with valve on), open the pressurized fermenter to the filter, and open the valve at the end and let it run till beer flows then hook up to the brite tank. sounds like a strange practice to me though..


This is perfectly normal practice in larger breweries using vertical palte and frame or candle filters. Fill everything up with deoxygenated water ideally, then simply push it all out with the beer. The big problem with plate and frame KG filters is simply the volume in the filter, and the fact that you have to have constant adequate flow through the filter sheets to keep the precoat on. The big advantage of horizontal leaf filters is the ability to blow out the water with CO2 first, and also at the end, with minimal dilution.

Depending on your beer CO2 content, youare likely to want something like 10 to 15 psi back pressure in your receiving tank. If you have a pumped system, this isn't a problem, but if you are using gas pressure to force through the filter, then ou may well have to reduce this simply so you don't exceed the safe woking pressure of the source tank, but still have sufficnt differential pressure to get flow.

[dick murton]

Hi Bootleg, I found that the filter will bleed much more. if you dont tighten the plates as much as you can before you wet them. So before I had a pneumatic closing system I used a long tube and cranked the plates tight as humanly possible before running water through.... I noticed a big difference on loss

For KG filters, and sterilising sheets for filters post KG filtration, the guidelines are to thoroughly soak the filter sheets until relatively soft befoe you even hang them on the plates. hang them on the plates whilst they are soft and then gently tighten up, just sufficient toflood the filter and be able to sterilise them. Sterilise them, accepting there will be some leaks, and then tighten them up fully just befor use. If ou tighten up before they have had a chance to soak, they are more liable to cut along the inevitable misalignments, and they seem to harden up before they have had a chance to "bed in" to the minor fluctuations in the surfaces and never seem to seal as well

Losses shoul only be a very slight weep. If you have constant fast drips or jets, then the fames may be warped, or certainly misaligned. Check the natural alignment next time you resheet, by gently closing the filter up, but without any sheets on. As a starter, pull out any misaligned / warped plates

Tightening the filter up before the sheets are fully wetted may also help to warp the plates, giving poor alignment. And carefully check the support sliders / or whatever is used

[tonyf125]

Flow Rates

So I have been checking into this post often and though I know it is old, I have some questions on it. We are looking into getting a plate and frame filter (40x40). Originally we were thinking this option because we were not planning on bottling. Through discussions, our bottling plans have been pushed ahead and now we are questioning whether a plate and frame filter is the right option for us (with $ in mind). From talking to a filter guy, he said we could get by with a larger size plate and frame filter and doing a 2 stage filtration (coarse then fine). We would then probably use some finings or clarifiers to help clear the beer for bottling as well.

We have a 30 bbl fermenters and brite tanks. We need to know what we want for a flow rate to help size the filter that we would need. Does anyone have a suggestion on this? We would like to be able to filter in less than a couple hours if that is possible.

Do a lot of people filter bottled beer with their plate and frame or do they run a DE filter and plate and frame? I would appreciate the help.

[GlacierBrewing]

Hi Tony,
I filter 10bbl tanks with a 34 plate, 40x40 plate and frame using Seitz K700 pads. I'm able to get very clear product through the filter and finish the filter run usually in about 40 minutes or so. This is the only filtration we do and we do bottle our beers. If you do go the route of a plate and frame, get one with a diverted plate so you can use two different grades of pads in series.
Luck to ya'


Prost!
Dave