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Thread: Designing Draft Lines

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Whitby, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    3

    Designing Draft Lines

    Just a general inquiry. Reworking our draft lines for serving our taproom. We have a 8 shanks through the wall of a walk in cooler to the taps out front. Regulator per keg. The longest line will be 16' which by my math: keg PSI = length of line x resistance of line (0.85 for 1/4" ID) + (tap height over keg in feet / 2) + 1 psi differential. This formula comes from http://beersmith.com/blog/2011/07/14...of-draft-beer/ Ultimately this formula tells me that my keg pressure should be 15.1 PSI if I want to be pouring at 1psi from my tap.
    Any recommendations to bring the PSI down besides shortening the line length? Or should we just continue to disengage couplers to avoid over carbing? any general thoughts
    Cheers
    Garett Stuckless
    The Second Wedge Brewing Co.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Livermore, CA
    Posts
    634
    Use larger lines, or barrier tubing for the main runs with chokers of 3/16" line just before the shanks. If you dont want to do that, then you can either serve warmer or use a blended gas so that your partial pressure of CO2 is not higher than you want.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Enterprise, Oregon
    Posts
    1,877
    I've gone with air-powered beer pumps for any run over about 10'. Mixed gas is another option.

    The rate at which you serve the beer will largely determine whether you have problems with over-carbing using straight CO2 for your push. If you're going through a keg a day one each line, you shouldn't notice any problems. If a keg lasts for a week, it will over-carb.

    Can you re-design the cooler lay-out to get your line lengths down? With a direct through-the-wall system, I keep the line lengths down to more like 6'--just enough for proper restriction.
    Timm Turrentine

    Brewerywright,
    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
    Enterprise. Oregon.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Fort Wayne, Indiana
    Posts
    58
    We have 5 taps and our longest line is 6 feet. Not sure why yours are so long?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Whitby, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by AmbrosiaOrchard View Post
    We have 5 taps and our longest line is 6 feet. Not sure why yours are so long?
    We have 8 taps and 4 lines to the growler filler. This is just how the floor plan works out when we run the lines along the wall rather than how they are now, which is free and tangled like crazy. This walk in fridge is also where our rear filling bottle shop shelves are so we need to keep space for that as well. I know it's hard to envision. Our shortest line is 9 feet which would make our regulator psi is only 9.15 PSI which is too low so I'm going to cut this line longer so I can up the resistance over 10 to more like 11 PSI.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Whitby, Ontario, Canada
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    3
    Quote Originally Posted by TGTimm View Post
    I've gone with air-powered beer pumps for any run over about 10'. Mixed gas is another option.

    The rate at which you serve the beer will largely determine whether you have problems with over-carbing using straight CO2 for your push. If you're going through a keg a day one each line, you shouldn't notice any problems. If a keg lasts for a week, it will over-carb.

    Can you re-design the cooler lay-out to get your line lengths down? With a direct through-the-wall system, I keep the line lengths down to more like 6'--just enough for proper restriction.
    This is the redesign of our walk in/ rear filling bottle shelves. Our lines would range from 16'-9' so each regulator will be different. Luckily I've chosen our most popular beer as the longest line so it won't be sitting for more than a couple days. Mixed gas is not an option at this point for us, as well as getting an air compressor for the air-powered beer pumps, (nowhere to vent the CO2 if we chose CO2 powered).
    This will most likely work fine we just wanted some input to see if there was an easier and affordable option we were not thinking of.
    at 6' what pressure are you pushing at to achieve a smooth pour? These calculations say that you would be releasing carb from your beer over time. Just curious not criticizing.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Enterprise, Oregon
    Posts
    1,877
    I recently built an 8-faucet system for a local brewpub. We had no compressor to run the pumps--15' of line--so I bought a cute little Rolair portable oil-less comp and installed it directly in the cooler. It's nearly silent, and has no problem keeping up with three pours at once. Eight months in service and it still runs fine and quiet.

    For a system like yours, with different length lines, beer pumps are an excellent solution, and will allow you to run 3 kegs off each regulator--my rather arbitrary limit for kegs/reg. The beer pumps maintain a constant output of 25 psi, making balancing your lines a breeze.
    Timm Turrentine

    Brewerywright,
    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
    Enterprise. Oregon.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Nashville
    Posts
    858
    Your best bet is to use 3/8" hose from the keg coupler up to the wall shank, and finish there with 3/16" ID hose to add the right amount of restriction. 3/8" ID hose has very little restriction - can't remember but you can look it up - and 3/16" ID has a restriction of 3 psi per foot. If you calculate what you need and then keep it a little long, you can keep cutting the hose back to get the exact right balance for the flow. I.E. start with 4' of 3/16" ID hose at the shank, and if the flow out of the tap is slow, wobbly, then cut off a foot and try again.

    You need to start with the right pressure to maintain the CO2 carbonation in the keg. At 38 F that will be around 10-12 psi. Then use the 3/16" choker hose at the end of each line to balance out the system. If you are at 15 psi and 38 F you will overcarb the keg in a day.

    For a simple system like you are describing, this is the cheapest AND best way to do it. And a good regulator will be able to supply up to four kegs at a time, in my experience, unless you are filling a ton of growlers.
    Linus Hall
    Yazoo Brewing
    Nashville, TN
    [url]www.yazoobrew.com[/url]

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Location
    Amboise, France
    Posts
    24
    Quote Originally Posted by TGTimm View Post
    I recently built an 8-faucet system for a local brewpub. We had no compressor to run the pumps--15' of line--so I bought a cute little Rolair portable oil-less comp and installed it directly in the cooler. It's nearly silent, and has no problem keeping up with three pours at once. Eight months in service and it still runs fine and quiet.

    For a system like yours, with different length lines, beer pumps are an excellent solution, and will allow you to run 3 kegs off each regulator--my rather arbitrary limit for kegs/reg. The beer pumps maintain a constant output of 25 psi, making balancing your lines a breeze.
    Timm - sorry, i might be miss understanding but do you recommend pushing beer with (« clean ») air from an air compressor?
    We have 20ft from cold room to bar and I’m worried about needing too much CO2 and over carbonate the beer...
    Thanks


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Enterprise, Oregon
    Posts
    1,877
    Nope. I recommend using compressed air to run beer pumps. Ours are FloJet model H5610000. I use them for any run over about 10'. With a reversing valve on every other pump, they also eliminalte the need for a pump when cleaning lines. I'm looking at my spare pump, which has been sitting on the shelf for three years. Theses things last.

    Pushing beer with air would be a very bad idea in so many ways.
    Timm Turrentine

    Brewerywright,
    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
    Enterprise. Oregon.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Location
    Amboise, France
    Posts
    24
    Thanks. I understand!
    That was my understanding for pushing directly with Compressed air (thus my request to clarify!)
    Thanks again.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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