Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: TTB application questions

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    northern michigan
    Posts
    14

    TTB application questions

    I'm getting ready with my TTB application for when they open back up and have a couple questions:

    1) The source of funds documentation applies only to personal funds being invested in the business, right? So for example: I put $X into the LLC and then the LLC goes and gets a loan or equipment lease or something. The only thing the TTB application is concerned with is where $X came from, right? I won't start my buildout until my TTB application is in, so I imagine that price can fluctuate quite a bit, which may or may not necessitate additional bank loan funds, etc.

    2) In the "brewery diagram" section, there's a checkbox that includes the serial number and capacity of all tanks. This must be an internal serial number, right? I mean, what about all the homemade tanks out there. Also, I can't imagine every brewery that opens has all their equipment onsite before applying to the TTB, right?

    3) Brewery or Brewpub? I've read several people saying they applied as a brewpub because they had fixed lines into a walkin cooler, or other similar reasons. My brewery will be very small with probably 90% of the beer going through the taps in the taproom. I will have a few select tap handles around the area and I will bottle some special releases, etc. Also, item #20 which is required to be initialed for a brewpub, reads: "we plan to sell retail liquors other than beer". My initial thought is that this isn't the case...but I do plan to also get a small winemaker license so I can do hard ciders. Is this what they're talking about? I'm confused as to which I am in the eyes of the TTB...I know in the eyes of the state (MI) I'm definitely NOT a brewpub...which is kind of what this sounds like...in MI, brewpubs are required to have a liquor license, sell others' products and maintain a percentage of their total sales as food sales.

    4) Submit ASAP or wait for TTB to come back online?

    Thanks for your help!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Littleton, CO
    Posts
    46
    Quote Originally Posted by phishheadmi View Post
    I'm getting ready with my TTB application for when they open back up and have a couple questions:

    1) The source of funds documentation applies only to personal funds being invested in the business, right? So for example: I put $X into the LLC and then the LLC goes and gets a loan or equipment lease or something. The only thing the TTB application is concerned with is where $X came from, right? I won't start my buildout until my TTB application is in, so I imagine that price can fluctuate quite a bit, which may or may not necessitate additional bank loan funds, etc.

    Technically, even loans for equipment or loans for the business are supposed to be disclosed. I expect a lot of equipment loans don't get disclosed, though. I would disclose loans issued to the business, though.

    2) In the "brewery diagram" section, there's a checkbox that includes the serial number and capacity of all tanks. This must be an internal serial number, right? I mean, what about all the homemade tanks out there. Also, I can't imagine every brewery that opens has all their equipment onsite before applying to the TTB, right?

    You can assign your own tank numbers (FV1, FV2, etc), and use whatever means you want to mark each tank as such. Markers, engraved, stickers, whatever.

    3) Brewery or Brewpub? I've read several people saying they applied as a brewpub because they had fixed lines into a walkin cooler, or other similar reasons.

    TTB's definition relates to whether you are going to serve from tanks. If you plan to keg and serve from kegs, you will be a brewery.

    My brewery will be very small with probably 90% of the beer going through the taps in the taproom. I will have a few select tap handles around the area and I will bottle some special releases, etc. Also, item #20 which is required to be initialed for a brewpub, reads: "we plan to sell retail liquors other than beer". My initial thought is that this isn't the case...but I do plan to also get a small winemaker license so I can do hard ciders. Is this what they're talking about?

    Yes. You should indicate you will serve other retail liquors other than beer. I expect they want to make sure you aren't storing non-taxpaid beer alongside non-taxpaid wine or the like.

    I'm confused as to which I am in the eyes of the TTB...I know in the eyes of the state (MI) I'm definitely NOT a brewpub...which is kind of what this sounds like...in MI, brewpubs are required to have a liquor license, sell others' products and maintain a percentage of their total sales as food sales.

    You should just apply as a brewery.

    4) Submit ASAP or wait for TTB to come back online?

    Submit ASAP. No reason to wait. The queue is forming regardless of whether TTB is open. Might as well get closer to the front of the line.

    Thanks for your help!
    See my answers in red above. Hopefully they are helpful! Good luck on your new business!
    Dan Christopherson
    Christopherson Brew Law
    Littleton, CO 80128
    (720) 515-8773
    dan@brew.law
    brew.law

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    northern michigan
    Posts
    14
    thanks very much, I appreciate your response and well wishes!!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Location
    Kasson, MN, USA
    Posts
    4
    Is it just the fermenters they need numbers for? Or do they need volumes for HLT, Mash, boil etc?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Leadville, CO
    Posts
    266
    Quote Originally Posted by ChaoticGoodBrew View Post
    Is it just the fermenters they need numbers for? Or do they need volumes for HLT, Mash, boil etc?
    After our initial submission we had a request to clarify volumes for all brewery vessels.
    Sent from my Microsoft Bob

    Beer is like porn. You can buy it, but it's more fun to make your own.
    seanterrill.com/category/brewing | twomilebrewing.com

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Location
    Kasson, MN, USA
    Posts
    4
    Thanks! I will include it all from the get go. did you label on the diagram or have an additional sheet with volumes on it?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Location
    Santa Cruz, CA, USA
    Posts
    9

    Arrow Talk to TTB/ABC when you can

    Once TTB/ABC opens back up again, don't be afraid to give them a phone call and ask your questions. Here in CA, at least, they're quite friendly and helpful.

    The way I see it, they WANT you to open and be successful and pay your taxes! And they DON'T want to have to hassle with sending a guy around to check up on you all the time because you don't know what you're doing.

    Movies & jokes about "@#$% Revenuers" aside, they strike me as pretty decent people and quite helpful!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Location
    Kasson, MN, USA
    Posts
    4
    They were great to work with. I put in my application, they requested a couple small edits and had my approval in less than a month

    Sent from my SM-G892U using Tapatalk

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •