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Advice On Adding a Nano Brewery to an Existing Location

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  • Advice On Adding a Nano Brewery to an Existing Location

    Hey all. I've been reading this forum for a while and have gained a ton of information already - thank you for that!

    I'm looking for some advice as I'm in the information-gathering phase considering jumping into commercial brewing at the nano level.

    I currently own a profitable wine and craft beer shop/bar in a small town that has a solid following. Been in business a little over 3 years and have a strong existing customer base. I'm in one of the premier locations in our small town, with ample parking, ~3,500 sq feet of space, a porch and plenty of tourists on a greenway across the street.

    My shop specializes in boutique wines and beers, and we keep rotating drafts and a decent bottle list as well. I've personally been brewing at home for about a decade (I would hire a main brewer if I go this route) and am considering converting my event room into a very small brewery area to sell limited runs directly out of our bar. No distribution.

    How feasible (and wise) would it be to add a 1 or 2 bbl system and sell that on draft instead of carrying other producers?

    I feel like I already have a lot of the tough things checked off: great location that can seat up to 100 with outdoors, established business and clientele, alcohol permitting already in place (just need brewpub), revenue model that is hybridized to not rely solely on beer sales, etc. Already being attached to this world, I believe that adding the nanobrewery side of things would greatly enhance the attraction level of the place and even make it a destination in and of itself.

    If there's merit to this idea, I'm thinking of a few snags and other questions:

    What sort of budget should I expect for brewhouse and fermenters and all basic equipment for this setup?

    A big one here: my space is on an old, thick, flat slab and is a lease. I'm not sure my landlords would be happy with repouring the slab for a slope to trench. Maybe we could grind down? Or maybe we could get away with a single, central floor drain at this size? I'd love to avoid massive, disruptive and expensive modification here if possible but don't know that the most recent techniques and suggestions would be for something of this size.

    What other structural things might I be missing in converting from commercial bar to brewpub?

    What's the best type of turnkey system - gas or electric? Can I get away with 1 bbl for this knowing that I don't intend to massively grow and distribute?

    Is this something that could be accomplished with under $20k of additional expense?

    Any help or just reactions would be really appreciated. Thank you!

  • #2
    I would suggest 3BBL at a minimum to ensure that it is sustainable. Direct fire with mains gas or bulk LPG would be best, but you could go electric. I would look at putting in a small trench drain. You will also need a glycol chiller, piping, steam vent and flue (so penetration through the ceiling or wall) and all the ancillary equipment to operate. I would estimate a minimum $125,000 to get the doors open for a system that you can brew a consistent example of commercial craft beer.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by TiminOz View Post
      I would suggest 3BBL at a minimum to ensure that it is sustainable. Direct fire with mains gas or bulk LPG would be best, but you could go electric. I would look at putting in a small trench drain. You will also need a glycol chiller, piping, steam vent and flue (so penetration through the ceiling or wall) and all the ancillary equipment to operate. I would estimate a minimum $125,000 to get the doors open for a system that you can brew a consistent example of commercial craft beer.
      Thank you for the response. I am surprised at the budget number you estimated given what I've read from other startups that did not even have an existing commercial space and doors already open as I have. What are the main sources of these expenses?

      I've spoken to a couple of small brewery/taproom concepts that opened on 50k from start to finish and are doing well.

      I had anticipated somewhere around $10k-12k for a used turnkey and some budget fermenters in the 1-3bbl range. A contractor friend estimated maybe a couple grand for a trench drain install at my size, and I'm sure there will need to be some extra plumbing, etc. done. However I am still confused on where an extra $100k of cost is needed.

      Obviously I am ignorant of a lot of things here!

      Comment


      • #4
        I'm sure you could put together a Frankenbrew,Homebrew set up with very limited refrigeration for under $25K, but lets just list a couple of items that are needed in a real commercial brewery.
        Manual keg Washer $7795 (you will need to clean and sanitize your kegs)
        Portable sanitary pump $2495 (you will need to transfer the wort from the BH to the FV)
        Glycol chiller and piping to FV ($15K, maybe less used) This is not the same as the chiller you use for your draft beer
        Temp controllers, RTD, Solenoids $1000 (really depends on how many FV's)
        Mill $3995
        Brew hoses, clamps, gasket and assorted spare parts $1500
        1BBL FV $4000 (this is a new price)
        3BBL FV$5000
        3BBL Brewhouse $52,000 (also a new price)
        HLT $5000
        Shipping to your location $3500
        These are new equipment prices, but used good equipment still holds value. Anything that is dirt cheap is exactly that.
        This is of course my opinion, but it is based on selling and installing many systems.

        Comment


        • #5
          You can do it and make excellent beer for much cheaper than timoz suggests, but it may come with sacrifices, like Tim was alluding to. For example maybe Chinese tanks would work for you instead of American made. That would drop the price significantly from what Tim was quoting. I'm not sure where Tim got his figure for a glycol chiller, we got a new American made chiller for $8k sized for 8 fermenters 10 and 20 BBL mixed, and a CLT. For a 3bbl system you could get away with a much smaller unit or even think about using a glycol beer line chiller. Alot of the cost savings would hinge on your ability to install and retrofit these things on your own.

          One thing I don't think Tim quoted was plumbing. To cut drains in to a floor and plumb in the necessary water pipes sinks ect your looking at 10-20k, I doubt the landlord would want to foot that bill.

          Your budget is all going to depend on individual decisions and abilities, but if I was budgeting to start another 3bbl brewery the bare minimum I think I could start a 3bbl in an existing premise leased- $35000-45000.
          If you really want to do this first step might be hiring your head brewer, in the interview process see how much he would need to spend to set up a brewery and let him source the equipment. Hopefully your budgets could line up square.

          Comment


          • #6
            I may have been a bit high on the chiller, a Prochiller for a 3BBL is listed at $9,950 (without plumbing) and buying a used chiller is just an invitation to pay for repairs during your first year, with new kit comes a warranty. My equipment pricing is straight Premier Stainless ( I represent PSS in Australia & NZ) so I quote what I know for fact. When you operate a brewery there are two things that you can control that will help you succeed (not including great recipes) 1) Efficiency in know that you are getting the most from your raw ingredients both in brewing and fermentation, the other is labor (having a system that works to commercial standards and completes a brew in the correct allotted time. Those are the things you lose with both dirt cheap gear and inefficient designs.
            You could definitely do it cheaper, but almost everyone I have dealt with in the last 10 years told me they should have tripled the amount estimated.
            Of course this is just my opinion, but I think if you search the forum on this topic I think there will be a large percentage that agree.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Cotillion View Post
              Hey all. I've been reading this forum for a while and have gained a ton of information already - thank you for that!

              I'm looking for some advice as I'm in the information-gathering phase considering jumping into commercial brewing at the nano level.

              I currently own a profitable wine and craft beer shop/bar in a small town that has a solid following. Been in business a little over 3 years and have a strong existing customer base. I'm in one of the premier locations in our small town, with ample parking, ~3,500 sq feet of space, a porch and plenty of tourists on a greenway across the street.

              My shop specializes in boutique wines and beers, and we keep rotating drafts and a decent bottle list as well. I've personally been brewing at home for about a decade (I would hire a main brewer if I go this route) and am considering converting my event room into a very small brewery area to sell limited runs directly out of our bar. No distribution.

              How feasible (and wise) would it be to add a 1 or 2 bbl system and sell that on draft instead of carrying other producers?

              I feel like I already have a lot of the tough things checked off: great location that can seat up to 100 with outdoors, established business and clientele, alcohol permitting already in place (just need brewpub), revenue model that is hybridized to not rely solely on beer sales, etc. Already being attached to this world, I believe that adding the nanobrewery side of things would greatly enhance the attraction level of the place and even make it a destination in and of itself.

              If there's merit to this idea, I'm thinking of a few snags and other questions:

              What sort of budget should I expect for brewhouse and fermenters and all basic equipment for this setup?

              A big one here: my space is on an old, thick, flat slab and is a lease. I'm not sure my landlords would be happy with repouring the slab for a slope to trench. Maybe we could grind down? Or maybe we could get away with a single, central floor drain at this size? I'd love to avoid massive, disruptive and expensive modification here if possible but don't know that the most recent techniques and suggestions would be for something of this size.

              What other structural things might I be missing in converting from commercial bar to brewpub?

              What's the best type of turnkey system - gas or electric? Can I get away with 1 bbl for this knowing that I don't intend to massively grow and distribute?

              Is this something that could be accomplished with under $20k of additional expense?

              Any help or just reactions would be really appreciated. Thank you!

              Have you considered doing wine instead? Our cidery and meadery has been doing well so far and a lot of customers say they are tired of craft beer. There are a lot more beer drinkers out there but also a lot of breweries competing for that business.

              Comment


              • #8
                Blichmann Nano Equipment

                My name is Drew and I work for Blichmann Engineering. We have a new 2bbl brewhouse and a 3.5bbl brewhouse that I think would be right up your alley. We specialize in equipment for places just like yours including tanks, chillers, and most all of the ancillary equipment you will need. Our equipment is designed to include only the necessities to make good quality beer. On a small scale like yours we can get you started for a pretty reasonable price. If you want to do production and grow the brewery portion then this may end up being a pilot system someday, but most of our customers just want to make a few beers for their taproom without spending a ton of money to do it. So we designed our equipment specifically to help them accomplish that. We can send you over a quote with everything you would need if it would help to give you an idea of total cost. Let me know if we can help, and I wish you the best of luck.

                Comment


                • #9
                  You would definitely be an option for this type of setup. But the initial question was could he do it for under $20K. The 3.5 BBL is $17K just for the BH before any cellar tanks, ancillary equipment of chiller. I am guessing that with shipping it would be closer to $40K. But still a reasonable option.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    10-12k isn't going to happen

                    I opened my 1bbl for 75k (CAD), but more than half of that was space build out requirements.

                    If I were you I would assume to spend a minimum of 50k (USD) if you're going for 3bbl, and that's assuming you're going to be doing most of the work yourself. (I spent 75k, but use AC units as chillers, did most of the construction myself etc).

                    You can probably keep the cost down by doing 3bbl with 3fv, 1bt to start and I would still recommend DIY a 8000BTU AC unit to cool the tanks and a second one for the brite.
                    If you can live without trench drains, that's also an easy way to save money (but shitty way to work).
                    If you go electric you can also save some money up front but depending on the cost of electrical in your area it will add up eventually. Essentially all you need is to have an electrician come in and wire everything up for you and buy a panel (that's still going to run you 10-15k).

                    Anyways, I would say you can probably realistically hit 50k, but plan for 50% more and you might land in the right area. If you only have 12k, find more.

                    Comment

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