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Thread: Tanks self cooling?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
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    Edmonton
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    Tanks self cooling?

    Got a really weird problem, my fermenters are cooling themselves.

    Luckly there is no beer in them but it's very odd that we even have our glycol pumps turned of entrierly but they are still chilling somehow. Our loop is really long would not be an easy pull from syphoning from our second glycol pump running our pilot system.

    No idea even where to start in diagnosis on this.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
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    Moorhead, Minnesota
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    Without knowing a whole lot about your glycol runs it's going to be hard for us to help. How is your tank temp controlled? Does it have a valve on the glycol jacket inlet port? What kind of valve? What kind of loop is it? Constantly flowing loop? Are your tanks double jacket tanks or one single jacket? If they are double jacket how do you have them hooked up to the loop? In series?
    Dan

  3. #3
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    Oct 2017
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    Edmonton
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junkyard View Post
    Without knowing a whole lot about your glycol runs it's going to be hard for us to help. How is your tank temp controlled? Does it have a valve on the glycol jacket inlet port? What kind of valve? What kind of loop is it? Constantly flowing loop? Are your tanks double jacket tanks or one single jacket? If they are double jacket how do you have them hooked up to the loop? In series?
    Dan
    The system is controlled via PID control cab with solinoid valves and tempature sensors. Only when a tempature is off spec does it turn on the pumps and open the solinoid to the double jacketed fermenters. The entire line is in series and we do have ball valves after the solenoid to test that if need be as well. The loop is not normally running but I'm not a fluid dynamic engineer so I am not sure if there is some kind of draw that is physics based rather than system based.

  4. #4
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    natchez
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    You could have a little poo in the Solenoid keeping it open allowing fluid to flow. It doesn’t take much. It’s a very easy fix. Just take it apart and clean

  5. #5
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    Feb 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by NatchezBrew View Post
    You could have a little poo in the Solenoid keeping it open allowing fluid to flow. It doesn’t take much. It’s a very easy fix. Just take it apart and clean
    I would also guess that you have a bit grit trapped under the diaphragm or that it has worn out. If you rinse it in a stainless bowl or sink you should see the particle that is allowing the glycol to slowly work it's way into the jacket.

  6. #6
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    The part the part that weird me out is how would it flow? The pump is not activated so there is no flow. Our glycol system is on the massive side but has a really long throw to get from the tank to the jackets so gravity wouldn't make sense either. I'll try cleaning out the solinoids too right away too.

  7. #7
    Join Date
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    I agree with the stuck solenoid valves, especially if it's a new system. It takes very little to clog a solenoid where it's permanently open--just a tiny piece of Teflon tape will do the trick.

    Do you have an in-line strainer on the cold side of you glycol system? You should.

    How are your jackets plumbed? The only way I can see a thermal siphon working is if you have the cold--input--on the bottom port of the jackets.
    Timm Turrentine

    Brewerywright,
    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
    Enterprise. Oregon.

  8. #8
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    Oct 2013
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    Cincinnati, OH
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    Quote Originally Posted by NatchezBrew View Post
    You could have a little poo in the Solenoid keeping it open allowing fluid to flow. It doesn’t take much. It’s a very easy fix. Just take it apart and clean
    This is one advantage to using motorized ball valves. Some will hate on them, but I've never had one stick open or closed on me myself. I have had numerous solenoids do so. There are advantages and disadvantages for each to be sure. I have had pneumatic actuators break springs as well, preventing cooling. Belimo, ASCO Red Hat II, & Burkert are my suggestions for quality brand names.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Louisville, KY
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    949
    My first instinct is that you may just be experiencing ambient temp drift. My empites stay the temp of the brewery, which is cold this time of year. Have you checked to see if the solenoid valves were installed in the correct flow orientation? Have you checked that the solenoid valves are designed for normally open or normally closed? They come in both varieties. Have you checked the PIDs to see if there is an option for open or closed in the programming? Heat or cool. Cheers.
    Joel Halbleib
    COO / Zymurgist
    Goodwood Brewing Co
    636 East Main St
    Louisville, KY
    goodwood.beer

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Edmonton
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrewinLou View Post
    My first instinct is that you may just be experiencing ambient temp drift. My empites stay the temp of the brewery, which is cold this time of year. Have you checked to see if the solenoid valves were installed in the correct flow orientation? Have you checked that the solenoid valves are designed for normally open or normally closed? They come in both varieties. Have you checked the PIDs to see if there is an option for open or closed in the programming? Heat or cool. Cheers.
    Pretty sure they are wired right as they have been working for 6 months till just recently.
    I am going to have to look more into how the solenoids are doing, they all have pre-strainers right before they they enter the solenoids, but who knows. Problem is I will need to find some time to get this all figured out which means I have to slow down brewing for a bit. Which is tough with spring around the corner.

    I am sure I can figure out some time to get it all figured out.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
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    Enterprise, Oregon
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    If you haven't done so already, now would be the right time to make sure your solenoid valves are located where you can (fairly) easily rebuild them in place. Hopefully you have isolation valves installed on both sides of the cooling jacket, too, with the inlet side before the solenoid.

    I can clean/rebuild a solenoid valve anywhere in the brewery in a few minutes--no need to wait until the vessel is empty.

    If you're using Asco Red Hat solenoids, the rebuild kit # is on the "cap" of the coil. I always keep a couple of each r'build kit handy. This can be a problem if anyone has been swapping parts--say, coils--on your solenoids. The right cap needs to go with the right valve body, not the coil. Also be aware there are r'build kits for AC and DC current. If you use a DC kit for AC, you'll have a buzz that will drive you up the wall and probably destroy your valve. Using an AC kit for DC is OK.
    Timm Turrentine

    Brewerywright,
    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
    Enterprise. Oregon.

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