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Thread: Acid tolerant sach yeast strains

  1. #1
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    Jun 2013
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    Acid tolerant sach yeast strains

    Hello

    I am hoping someone has found something on line that could help me with this.
    Making a kettle sour beer, pale ale...heavy on the hops at the end of boil and dry hop...

    I have used a few strains that have fermented out quite nicely, without the stall, but did not accentuate much hop character.

    With the obvious trends, it would make sense to me to use a north east ale yeast, or the London Ale III (Wyeast) or something similar.

    Is it simply easier to use some dried yeast such as SafAle S-05 or would that low pH wort environment not work out at all?
    Is there a correlation between low flocculation strains and their ability to tolerate lower pH environments?

    Currently using the following strains:
    1968 London ESB (Wyeast)
    2487 Hellabock (Wyeast)
    WLP029 German / Kolsch (White Labs)...by the way, this seems to work well in a low pH enviroment from my experience
    WLP008 East Coast Ale

    Hoping anyone can help me out on this.
    Any advice is appreciated.

  2. #2
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    I have used S-05 in Berliner Weisse's and found that it performed reasonably well, even when the soured wort was in the 3.0 to 3.1 range. I've since found that that pH range is too low for a palatable beer and its therefore apparent that S-05 should work very well when you keep wort pH in the 3.2 to 3.5 range.
    WaterEng
    Engineering Consultant

  3. #3
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    I will second this. 3.2-3.5 is a good spot, but measuring total acidity is preferred to pH.

    I have found BRY-97 from Lallemand to be very aggressive and perform well for low pH wort too. Cali 001/1056 are easy winners too. These are very neutral strains.

    If you want to accentuate hops, I would avoid English strains (which tend to have lower attenuation and therefore leave more residual sugars and “malt” character). I would also look at your chloride to sulphate ratio. This has the most impact to hop “pop” in my experience. Kolsch is a unique flavor profile and the 029 specifically is a bit more finicky in temperature response. If you use this, stay on the warmer side to avoid stalling. With proper pitching and aeration, you should not have issue with a vast array of options.

    If a particular yeast is not working for you, it is possible to “acclimate” the yeast into a slightly lower pH environment prior to pitching. This helps avoid shock to the yeast and allows fermentation to start a little quicker.

  4. #4
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    Hi there,

    Your typical American strains perform well in those low pH conditions. Regarding the hops, I somehow feel that, for some reason, a sour does not accentuate hops as well as a normal ale/lager. Maybe someone has found this to be the opposite?

    Cheers

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
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    Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnFermentable View Post
    I will second this. 3.2-3.5 is a good spot, but measuring total acidity is preferred to pH.

    I have found BRY-97 from Lallemand to be very aggressive and perform well for low pH wort too. Cali 001/1056 are easy winners too. These are very neutral strains.

    If you want to accentuate hops, I would avoid English strains (which tend to have lower attenuation and therefore leave more residual sugars and “malt” character). I would also look at your chloride to sulphate ratio. This has the most impact to hop “pop” in my experience. Kolsch is a unique flavor profile and the 029 specifically is a bit more finicky in temperature response. If you use this, stay on the warmer side to avoid stalling. With proper pitching and aeration, you should not have issue with a vast array of options.

    If a particular yeast is not working for you, it is possible to “acclimate” the yeast into a slightly lower pH environment prior to pitching. This helps avoid shock to the yeast and allows fermentation to start a little quicker.
    I can confirm that BRY-97 is a great choice for a sour fermentation, and it will emphasize hop character through its beta-glucosidase activity (biotransformation). In fact, most Lallemand strains tend to perform quite well, so I wouldn't hesitate to recommend any of them within the range of acidity that you find palatable. As mentioned above, total acidity is a better measure than pH since pH is not linear with acid concentration. It also depends on the type of acid... brewing strains are generally tolerant to lactic acid, but much more sensitive to acetic acid, even if the pH is higher.
    Lallemand is a global leader in the development, production and marketing of yeast, bacteria and specialty ingredients.

  6. #6
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    Thanks for the advice;

    For clarification:
    This will be a kettle sour
    Using Lactobacillus Plantarum to sour.

    I do have one more question regarding using dried yeast for the ferment.

    Safale S05
    Do any of you recommend adding the dried yeast through the top of the fermenter while filling up with wort and aerating?
    This is the method Fermentis recommends, and we have had success with this under more normal wort pH environments.
    Understand it is a lower pH environment and the yeast may not be as interested to start fermenting as in more normal pH conditions.

    Basically asking has anyone tried this method without hydrating before or hydrating with a mixture of water and lower pH wort?

    Thanks
    David

  7. #7
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    Jul 2015
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    Monroe, WI
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    US-05 works great for Kettle sours. I use it all the time. I rehydrate with 10 times the weight in milliliters of water, on a stir plate for about 20 min. Rest for a bit and dump into the top of the filled fermenter.

  8. #8
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatback View Post
    US-05 works great for Kettle sours. I use it all the time. I rehydrate with 10 times the weight in milliliters of water, on a stir plate for about 20 min. Rest for a bit and dump into the top of the filled fermenter.
    Happen to try and reuse the US05 yeast?

  9. #9
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    Jan 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdd182 View Post
    Happen to try and reuse the US05 yeast?
    I would not recommend re-pitching from sour ferments. We have seen sluggish fermentations and poor viability with yeast taken from sour fermentations.
    Lallemand is a global leader in the development, production and marketing of yeast, bacteria and specialty ingredients.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
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    west coast
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnFermentable View Post
    I will second this. 3.2-3.5 is a good spot, but measuring total acidity is preferred to pH.

    I have found BRY-97 from Lallemand to be very aggressive and perform well for low pH wort too. Cali 001/1056 are easy winners too. These are very neutral strains.

    If you want to accentuate hops, I would avoid English strains (which tend to have lower attenuation and therefore leave more residual sugars and “malt” character). I would also look at your chloride to sulphate ratio. This has the most impact to hop “pop” in my experience. Kolsch is a unique flavor profile and the 029 specifically is a bit more finicky in temperature response. If you use this, stay on the warmer side to avoid stalling. With proper pitching and aeration, you should not have issue with a vast array of options.

    If a particular yeast is not working for you, it is possible to “acclimate” the yeast into a slightly lower pH environment prior to pitching. This helps avoid shock to the yeast and allows fermentation to start a little quicker.
    Whats your preferred sulfate/chloride for hoppy sour? Ive tried both ends of spectrum, didn’t see much difference. Is it ratio, or ppm levels?

    And just to note for OP, ive used conan in kettle sour. Delicious. Mash low if you’re worried about fg.
    Last edited by brain medicine; 07-04-2019 at 09:12 AM.

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