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Thread: how much is normal waste water use in HE back flushing?

  1. #1
    Join Date
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    how much is normal waste water use in HE back flushing?

    Our normal cleaning of our HE consists of hot caustic circulation followed by hot water rinse (15 gallon) followed by back flush with water which requires up to 400 gallons before we don't see any organic material coming through. This water has been going down the drain and seems very wasteful but not sure what to do with it and also if this is a normal amount of water that others are using for this process. This is a 15bbl HE. Thanks in advance for the help.

  2. #2
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    Sep 2005
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    Louisville, KY
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    Sounds like you have a lot of organics going into your HE. How is your trub pile, tight and cone like? Our HE CIP sop is backflush for 5-8 min with hot water, hot caustic backwards recirc for 30 min, forward rinse for 5-8 min, backwards sani for 15 and seal it up packed with sani until the next run. We also rotate acid in every week or two to keep stone from forming. Cheers
    Joel Halbleib
    COO / Zymurgist
    Goodwood Brewing Co
    636 East Main St
    Louisville, KY
    goodwood.beer

  3. #3
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    Jan 2003
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    Palau
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    Use a CIP schedule with a small tank...

    Sounds like you get far too much in your Hx. Methods for better whirlpool may be useful. SOP for most installations should include a tank with your CIP. Something small like a scrap keg works great. Series of 4 valves to either recirculate from/to the tank or from/to your process allows you to perform many tasks with your CIP pump. Like dosing, yeast harvest & pitching, and allows you to push CIP cleaner into your Hx while you use your pitching hose to dump back into the top of your tank through a fine screen. Something like a large colander to catch hop particles. Keeps them from redepositing in the Hx. During a 30 minute CIP of our Hx, I'll rinse the screen every 5-10 minutes to rid the particulate. You should not be dumping that amount of water. A quick acid rinse after hot PBW and we're ready for the next day's brew.
    Phillip Kelm--Palau Brewing Company Manager--

  4. #4
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    The big PHE suppliers I have worked with recommend backwards CIP flow, all cycles, with hot fluids - typically around 80 C, but minimum 65 C. CIP flow rate to be 130 to 150% of design forward flow rate - up to 200% OK. Check post detergent rinse with pH paper / meter and stop when at say 7.5. If using PAA, this should work ok then, else use 85 C hot water.

    All other advice fine, but you may need to consider opening up and manually cleaning before implementing the new regime. I hate doing it (not because of the faff of cleaning it, just the buggers often don't seal properly without overtightening and so narrowing the plate gaps), but sometimes it just has to be done to get the results.
    dick

  5. #5
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    We get a pretty good hop cone after whirlpool and I run off about 1/2 gallon to purge the stuff that may be near the valve. i close valves just before the cone collapses at the end of transfer. We do use a lot of hops in our pale/iipa but even after running our belgian tripel through there is a lot of need for flushing. I have been running the caustic in the same direction as wort flow so will try circulating that in reverse. We have been flushing with water in reverse direction. I will also try the recirc. with a screen in line to keep particles from going back into HE as suggested. I'll also circ. some acip-f as I haven't considered the build up of minerals. We always leave hoses and HE packed with peracetic acid.

  6. #6
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    How often do you brew?

    Unless you are brewing every day, I would not keep hoses & Hx packed. I think it's better to thoroughly clean and then leave them hang to dry. If I'm having a long day, I'll leave the hot PBW packed in the Hx overnight. Next morning when I turn on the CIP pump, the liquid in the Hx leaves very green with soil. But for a very short length of time. It gets very clean, very fast.
    Phillip Kelm--Palau Brewing Company Manager--

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    Nevada City, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrewinLou View Post
    Sounds like you have a lot of organics going into your HE. How is your trub pile, tight and cone like? Our HE CIP sop is backflush for 5-8 min with hot water, hot caustic backwards recirc for 30 min, forward rinse for 5-8 min, backwards sani for 15 and seal it up packed with sani until the next run. We also rotate acid in every week or two to keep stone from forming. Cheers
    OT -- hey Joel, why do you rinse forward after the backward caustic? I have seen a few random mentions of this on the PB site but not an explanation as to why. My SOP has been forward and then backward flush w/ hot H20, back flush with caustic, rinse backwards with hot h20, and pack with sani (also backward). Thanks
    Dave Cowie
    Three Forks Bakery & Brewing Company
    Nevada City, CA

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