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Thread: Advice needed : Boil vent, aroma

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Nashua, NH, USA
    Posts
    7

    Advice needed : Boil vent, aroma

    I'm starting a 2 - 3.5 BBL nano. Leased the "perfect" commercial space, ex-pizza shop with propane rail, vent hood, replacement air, and fire suppression (although I've already begun to question direct-fire). It's in a busy commercial/residential town center with several restaurants (many of the buildings, including mine, have commercial on the ground level and apartments above).

    An abutter expressed concerns over "brewery stench", presenting multiple internet articles about how the brewing process smells like rotten eggs or cow manure (uugh). While the town board doesn't expect that to be the case, they've still asked me to find "an odor reducing element" to incorporate into the system. They also asked me to show examples of functioning craft brewery's solutions to odor management.

    I've searched this forum and found only a suggestion to use a condenser stack. I mentioned this option to the town board, but they seemed to prefer an activated carbon filtration system or equiv. Does the condenser significantly reduce vent emissions?

    I'm self-financing on a very tight budget, so hiring an engineer to present a study is not an option.
    Does anyone know of reference material or articles? Or have any advice??

    Thanks in advance

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Bloomfield, IN, USA
    Posts
    1
    Everything I read in some brief research indicates that bad smells from breweries are related to waste water treatment. Can you post any links from the complainer?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    251
    Bad smelling breweries are dirty breweries. Don't be a dirty brewery and you and the neighbors will be fine. Find a farmer to get rid of grain daily, clean your floor drains, don't let mold grow all over the place. Don't be a dirty brewery.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Nashua, NH, USA
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    7
    Quote Originally Posted by feedstoresteve View Post
    Everything I read in some brief research indicates that bad smells from breweries are related to waste water treatment. Can you post any links from the complainer?
    Exactly. And the zoning board members caught that his articles were based on large commercial breweries with onsite waste water treatment. His other articles referred to spent grains as "sticky, smelly mush" like rotting oatmeal. I brought a zip-lock to show them spent grains after mash and drain. They didn't bother to view it. They don't believe his claims, but the burden is on me to prove that his concerns have been adequately addressed. I will present multiple examples of local breweries using roof vent systems with no neighbor issues (hopefully I can get some brewers and/or their neighbors to write statements of such).

    Quote Originally Posted by soia1138 View Post
    Bad smelling breweries are dirty breweries. Don't be a dirty brewery and you and the neighbors will be fine. Find a farmer to get rid of grain daily, clean your floor drains, don't let mold grow all over the place. Don't be a dirty brewery.
    Again, exactly! The zoning board is hoping that I could find a low-cost odor control solution being used by other brewers... something that would squelch this noisy neighbor. But I can't find a common solution to an uncommon issue.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Nashua, NH, USA
    Posts
    7
    Figured I would post an update for giggles.

    The two abutters that objected to my 2BBL nano startup on the basis of presumed offensive odors were finally voted against by the town ZBA. Permission granted to conduct business under the stipulations that I had to use a condenser for the kettles, only propane fumes could be vented, and all spent grains must be removed from the premises within 24 hours in sealed containers.

    Not to say there is small town politics involved, but the attorney that represented the objectors against me then approached the ZBA to represent IN FAVOR OF a town restaurant that wants to add 10BBL in-house brewing only 250 ft. from me. The objectors in my case are not direct abutters to the other restaurant, but they all confirmed to the town that they had no issue with that zoning application because "he was using electric kettles that do not produce foul brewing odors" and "produce far less spent grain". I guess facts don't matter in these cases.

    Unfortunately, the objectors have appealed my zoning grant to the state court system. They promised the ZBA they would take it to the highest court. They know they can tie me up in court for another 12 months, while the restaurant is almost completed their brewery addition. I guess the best way to for them to deal with competition is to join together and make sure there is no competition.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Bangalore, IN
    Posts
    25
    Quote Originally Posted by Ogie View Post
    Figured I would post an update for giggles.

    The two abutters that objected to my 2BBL nano startup on the basis of presumed offensive odors were finally voted against by the town ZBA. Permission granted to conduct business under the stipulations that I had to use a condenser for the kettles, only propane fumes could be vented, and all spent grains must be removed from the premises within 24 hours in sealed containers.

    Not to say there is small town politics involved, but the attorney that represented the objectors against me then approached the ZBA to represent IN FAVOR OF a town restaurant that wants to add 10BBL in-house brewing only 250 ft. from me. The objectors in my case are not direct abutters to the other restaurant, but they all confirmed to the town that they had no issue with that zoning application because "he was using electric kettles that do not produce foul brewing odors" and "produce far less spent grain". I guess facts don't matter in these cases.

    Unfortunately, the objectors have appealed my zoning grant to the state court system. They promised the ZBA they would take it to the highest court. They know they can tie me up in court for another 12 months, while the restaurant is almost completed their brewery addition. I guess the best way to for them to deal with competition is to join together and make sure there is no competition.
    That certainly is some giggly bs. I hope you have a decent lawyer to hold them up as much as they do to you if it really is those small town games. If it's the same lawyer in two cases you might be able to argue something in the general neighborhood to negligent misrepresentation or slander.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    563
    I think you are looking for a document titled Wort Boiling Today - Boiling Systems with Low Thermal Stress in Combination with Volatile Stripping by Ronnie Willaert and Gino Baron

    Basically it tells you the off-gassing of wort vapors during boil is like 99% water vapor with organic hop and malt compounds. There are over 160 possible compounds that can appear including things like alcohols, esters, ketones, terpenes, and aldehydes.

    If you have a vapor condenser, then hydrophillic compounds will be completely condensed but hydrophobic compounds may not be completely condensed. Read - some hop aromas will not be condensed and you will still have some smell. Basically there is nothing of significant quantity to pose a real health risk. You will condense at least 99%-ish of all vapors with a condenser stack and that is the angle you want to push.

    In industrial productions you might see the condenser collection lead back to water treatment plant. Any remaining gas would be routed to atmosphere, or possibly to a bio-filter or scrubbing system prior to atmosphere discharge. This can get complicated and costly. With nasty gasses you typically run it through a Flare Stack.

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