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Thread: Temp controller for use with 3 wire thermocouple connector

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
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    west coast
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    291

    Temp controller for use with 3 wire thermocouple connector

    have a three wire thermocouple with the plastic round connector head on the new tanks. we've just used basic johnson/ranco type setups in the past, hollow thermowell and shove the probe down there, etc. haven't used these RTD type setups before so not sure what controllers are good options.

    looking for decent quality three wire/RTD and aren't super expensive?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Moab, Utah
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    562

    Terms

    Quote Originally Posted by brain medicine View Post
    have a three wire thermocouple with the plastic round connector head on the new tanks. we've just used basic johnson/ranco type setups in the past, hollow thermowell and shove the probe down there, etc. haven't used these RTD type setups before so not sure what controllers are good options.

    looking for decent quality three wire/RTD and aren't super expensive?
    First thing your 3 wire not considered as a " Thermocouple. " Your term RTD is correct and they will not necessarily work on the same controllers. You need one rated for that type of input such as many classes of modern PID controls. You are going to need something that is easy to change setpoint on and with a keypad that will not fail in the short term. RTDs are a different animal and they can be more problematic from a reliability standpoint if they are not set up and wired perfectly. Sometimes transmitters are required in certain settings to get a solid signal back to the readout. Shorter runs should be ok. I do not recommend the Red Lion brand. The Fuji controls have been spoken about in forum and look pretty solid. I would advise looking at how the said controls are programmed and get something user friendly. Some of them are very difficult and counter intuitive to get through. For basic cooling set up, it should not be too bad. They have to be housed and configured into a dedicated control panel, with proper overload protection, filtering, disconnect, and so forth.
    Warren Turner
    Industrial Engineering Technician
    HVACR-Electrical Systems Specialist
    Moab Brewery
    " No Cell Phone Zone."

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Minocqua WI
    Posts
    813
    I like Omega for this stuff. Good tech support if you need help.

    https://www.omega.com/en-us/sensors-.../c/temperature
    Brewmaster, Minocqua Brewing Company
    tbriggs@minocquabrewingcompany.com
    "Your results may vary"

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    west coast
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starcat View Post
    Fist thing your 3 wire not considered as a " Thermocouple. " Your term RTD is correct and they will not necessarily work on the same controllers....... They have to be housed and configured into a dedicated control panel, with proper overload protection, filtering, disconnect, and so forth.
    autocorrect there. should have been thermowell. the ones with the kinda round plastic head on them, connected to tc fitting into tank.

    the issue is that there isn't a nice plug or outlet to plug into on the plastic head, when you open it up there's just the three wires on little bus bars that come up from the probe tip. so that's why Im assuming its three wire RTD.

    I found lots of references to the fuji series, am familiar with those PID type controllers, day to day programming isn't too bad. we basically just put them in litlle plastic boxes and wire them up home-brew style. lots of cheap, easy examples. they'd be individual boxes as opposed to a cellar panel. although getting setup with RTD is new to me, at least in terms of making sure I've got the right wires connected to each other.

    the other issue is that I'm not familiar with the specs on the PID I'd need to order for use with a basic solenoid. for inputs, its RTD/thermocouple/universal. easy enough.

    but the outputs available are relay, analog, ssr/ssc, etc. not sure which one we want there for use with a regular little 24vac or dc solenoid?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Enterprise, Oregon
    Posts
    1,947
    You will need a PID controller--we use Fujis--and some RTD cable to hook them up. The special RTD cable probably isn't essential, but it's made for use with them and is very high quality wire. Besdes, it has the proper color-coding.

    There are two red and one white wire. The tow reds are interchangeable, but the white and reds must go to the right terminals on the PID controller.

    The controllers come in different line voltages--220, 110 VAC and 24 VAC are common. It isn't essential that this match the control voltage--the voltage of your solenoids--but it is convenient. For safety's sake, 24VAC is preferable for line and control.

    A central control panel makes life much easier. Some of the new PID controllers can communicate via wifi, which is handy when you want to check temps from home, but then they are also vulnerable to tampering by third parties.
    Timm Turrentine

    Brewerywright,
    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
    Enterprise. Oregon.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Ia
    Posts
    17
    Give automation direct a look.
    They have a basic and advice models both have a simple on/ off control option like a rancho controller.

    the advance model has RS-485 communications that you could use in the future for remote monitoring with a plc.


    https://www.automationdirect.com/adc...ss_controllers

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    western , NY
    Posts
    114
    There are many options here that can be used with an rtd... ranging from hundreds of dollars to some of the the cheap inkbird type hysteresis controllers (the $99 prewired inkbird pid box uses a 3 wire rtd setup). It really depends on what you want. (pid control is NOT important for this type of duty vs hysteresis)

    I use an arduino based brucontrol setup which allows me to write temp control fermentation schedules if I want (for example it will hold the temp at 66 degrees for x amount of days then let it ramp up and cold crash Y amount of hours or days later.. it all runs on 12 and 24v dc including the solenoid valves. (heat is 120v). plus its all available from any pc on my network of via the net through teamviewer.

    Some of the other plc type solutions Ive seen with this capability tent to cost thousands of dollars..

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