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Thread: How much power do I need to run six 6000k elements?

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    western , NY
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    131
    Quote Originally Posted by jebzter View Post
    if it takes 10+ hours to turn 1 batch from start to finish, youre doing it wrong. Take a look at your processes and find out where your choke points are. We turn 2 in 10 hours, and thats pretty standard with a 2 vessel system and an HLT
    I'm talking about the complete brew day including measuring out/grinding grain and cleanup with 2 people. I can see where we could shave an hour or 2 off if we had a dedicated brew area we didnt have to clean up before we open due to our equipment being on display in the tasting room and if skipped the step mashing and different rests as some do but hey theres more than one way to skin a cat. neither is "wrong", They just produce different outcomes. I should add that I was making a point by estimating on the high end with a more complex beer.. we do have some (blond ale for example) which take considerable less time due to simplicity. I also fully understand the time that can be saved by brewing a second time without cleaning equipment and heating while the first batch is still boiling. My point was its still makes for a long day that for a tasting room of 30 people I just dont see the sustained need to do myself unless you have a very limited time frame to brew beer but everyone's situation is different I guess and if you sell a lot of growlers, plan to distribute or have a restaurant thats going to draw a lot of people in off hours you may need to brew back to back.. I just didnt want the OP to end up spending a huge amount of money for something he may never end up really doing at his current location.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    western , NY
    Posts
    131
    You may even want to consider 4 smaller elements something like these vs 3 larger ones depending on how your kettles are set up.
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dernord-Wat...MAAOSwldRdaegw
    ... This could give you more flexibility depending on your needs as well.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Livermore, CA
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    663
    You are 100% correct, there's lots of ways to get things done. Given that this is a business, and businesses need to be efficient with how they spend their money, the least amount of time to produce the highest quality beer would be the best process, especially since on these small systems, labor is definitely your highest cost item per bbl of beer. Just my 2 cents.
    Quote Originally Posted by augiedoggy View Post
    I'm talking about the complete brew day including measuring out/grinding grain and cleanup with 2 people. I can see where we could shave an hour or 2 off if we had a dedicated brew area we didnt have to clean up before we open due to our equipment being on display in the tasting room and if skipped the step mashing and different rests as some do but hey theres more than one way to skin a cat. neither is "wrong", They just produce different outcomes. I should add that I was making a point by estimating on the high end with a more complex beer.. we do have some (blond ale for example) which take considerable less time due to simplicity. I also fully understand the time that can be saved by brewing a second time without cleaning equipment and heating while the first batch is still boiling. My point was its still makes for a long day that for a tasting room of 30 people I just dont see the sustained need to do myself unless you have a very limited time frame to brew beer but everyone's situation is different I guess and if you sell a lot of growlers, plan to distribute or have a restaurant thats going to draw a lot of people in off hours you may need to brew back to back.. I just didnt want the OP to end up spending a huge amount of money for something he may never end up really doing at his current location.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Dunedin FL
    Posts
    45
    Per cost and time I'm going with upgrading to a 200amp panel. Should be able to run everything off that.

  5. #20
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    Oct 2017
    Location
    western , NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Newbie View Post
    Per cost and time I'm going with upgrading to a 200amp panel. Should be able to run everything off that.
    Did you end up speaking with an electrician that has knowledge of 3 phase? or are you going with a 200a single phase upgrade? Just wondering.

    Ive been told by a couple different electricians that I would have been much better off with 3 phase but fail to understand why if the KWH billing is the same.
    Last edited by augiedoggy; 10-23-2019 at 06:29 AM.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Dunedin FL
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    45
    Quote Originally Posted by augiedoggy View Post
    Did you end up speaking with an electrician that has knowledge of 3 phase? or are you going with a 200a single phase upgrade? Just wondering.

    Ive been told by a couple different electricians that I would have been much better off with 3 phase but fail to understand why if the KWH billing is the same.
    Finally I actual had the Ele Eng out there. I def wanted the 3 phase but the lenth away I needed it was to far. Which meant an upgrade from the pole, lines, and so on. Was much more costly than upgrading the 100amp. Between permits and cost it wasn't in the cards.

  7. #22
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    Oct 2017
    Location
    western , NY
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    Understood... Just be sure to check with your power company since you may find the extra money invested up front might save thousands down the road.
    In our case with the 200amp service we are using so much electricity (just brewing once a week but we have an electric convection oven, chiller, coolers+AC) that we were bumped to the KWH plan which increased our electric bill by over 1/3 (about $2-300 extra a month).. with a 3ph service that may not have been the case.
    Last edited by augiedoggy; 10-24-2019 at 06:30 AM.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    Hopewell Junction, NY, USA
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    1
    Quote Originally Posted by augiedoggy View Post
    so after doing some more reading on this I still could be wrong, but im fairly certain stout is incorrect on this info they gave you... a 6000w 3 phase element should draw 8.3a from each phase of power... a thats if your 100a 3ph feed has 100a PER phase of power not combined (which it should) think of it this way... an 1800w 120v element draws about 15 amps... now a 240v 1800w element only draws about 7.5 amps because the power is split between 2 poles of 120v power... a 3ph element is powered by 3 poles of 120v and split 3 ways which means it draws even less off each pole.

    http://www.steambathbd.com/wp-conten...nts_text_1.jpg

    here is another article explaining the difference but apprently it also matters whether the 3ph elements are "balanced" or "unbalanced"
    http://waterheatertimer.org/3-phase-water-heater.html

    One possibility is perhaps stout only sells single phase or unbalanced heating elements to go with their systems? Thats kind of what it seems like from what you have shared from them based upon what I understand so far.
    I sourced my own elements and there are a large number of companies that supply both single and 3 phase brewing elements and control panels.
    Hey Guys,

    John from Brewmation here. We supply Stout with their heating elements and controls, and I just wanted to chime in on this to say that you are both correct. The information Stout provided is what we recommend, and the 6,000W elements are in fact wired across a single phase, not three phases. While the 6kW element could be 3 x 8.3A (3-phase) elements, as shown in the link, the total draw to achieve a 18kW would be the same either way. For a 90A supply, we typically set the interlock at 4 elements max (~66A max draw) to leave enough headroom for up to 4 pumps, sometimes a rake motor, plus an amp or two for the controls. Once boil is achieved, 2 elements is enough to keep it going or heat water in your HLT.

    We do use three phases elements on our larger systems, but in the case of an 18k system, we would use single phase elements.

    Sounds like the OP landed on 200A single phase, which will be plenty for this setup, but I wanted to provide a little more info on the power requirements that were listed.

    Best,
    John
    Last edited by John@Brewmation; Today at 10:57 AM.

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