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  • CODI Canning Dissolved Oxygen

    I am looking specifically for dissolved oxygen numbers for a CODI CCL-45. I am interested in DO numbers for variance between fill heads on a single cycle. I am also interested in comparing this to other in line fillers, so anyone with numbers for Cask, Twin Monkeys, or Wild Goose please post as well!

    Thanks,

  • #2
    I'm curious about this, too. We're currently using an ABE LinCan 35 and are pretty happy with it, but we lose a fair amount of beer, so I'd also be interested in observations of how much beer is spilled during the filling/seaming process.
    Timm Turrentine

    Brewerywright,
    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
    Enterprise. Oregon.

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    • #3
      Filler Design

      Originally posted by TGTimm View Post
      I'm curious about this, too. We're currently using an ABE LinCan 35 and are pretty happy with it, but we lose a fair amount of beer, so I'd also be interested in observations of how much beer is spilled during the filling/seaming process.
      That type of filler design which is similar to what we have would seem to have the characteristic of more waste than a rotary system. There are some different types of Tek out there right now that deal with getting fill levels correct in a way that is superior to the sensor Technology on the line we are running. Angelus would be one on that list.
      Warren Turner
      Industrial Engineering Technician
      HVACR-Electrical Systems Specialist
      Moab Brewery
      The Thought Police are Attempting to Suppress Free Speech and Sugar coat everything. This is both Cowardice and Treason given to their own kind.

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      • #4
        I dont have any direct experience with that machine, I would suspect that your DO levels will be pretty variable. Filler heads look nice, but there's a ton of potential for oxygen pickup between when they are filled and seamed. Could use some design upgrades to help out with that. I would guess that it has similar levels to a wild goose, which I have seen up to 400ppm off of some users. One these machines, they have the ability to perform really well, its just up to the user on how they protect their product from the elements.

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        • #5
          We own a CODI for more than a year, I only have good words for this machine. We do not have a DO meter but we had a lab come to test everything with a C-BOX. We had a TPO between 20-40 ppb in shaken cans. These are good numbers but I think people focus too much on DO, ''all'' the machines can achieve a good DO with a good and caring operator. The important things are : is it easy to CIP? Can it handle heat and chemicals? % of loss/low fills ? Ease of maintenance ? We operate it with two people, we run around 36CPM (16oz) manually fed in a twist rinse. I recommend CODI for the nice canning system they sell and the good service they have.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by felixsth View Post
            We had a TPO between 20-40 ppb in shaken cans. These are good numbers but I think people focus too much on DO, ''all'' the machines can achieve a good DO with a good and caring operator. The important things are : is it easy to CIP? Can it handle heat and chemicals? % of loss/low fills ? Ease of maintenance ? We operate it with two people, we run around 36CPM (16oz) manually fed in a twist rinse. I recommend CODI for the nice canning system they sell and the good service they have.
            DO is the single most important factor in packaged beer. But I think I get your point.

            I think these are all great points and very important considerations, but as you state about DO, a caring operator can achieve all these easily on most all of the machines. I think itÂ’s always wise to verify limitations and compatibility, but the reality is we should be willing to learn how to operate the machines as designed. Clean and maintenance per the guidelines. Do we need hot caustic if warm metasilicate achieves a clean ATP test? (Rhetorical obviously)

            I have seen much “concern” over the period of time a can sits open on a conveyor, and heard many state a need for an “under-lid” blanket of CO2 on such machines, but the evidence is just not there. Muchroom the foam properly. At least three WG’s, a Cask, & ABE gave me my direct evidence of sub 50ppb TPOs on IPAs (which always gave me 20-50% higher readings). Proper purging and filling technique is the key. It’s rocket surgery, if you pay attention, but so is everything in life...if you pay attention. Hell, I’ve even filled a can manually and seamed it sub 80ppb. That’s a pigtail fill hand lidded and walked to the seamer.

            Less than 1% total losses is achievable if you know what you are doing. I once ran just under 30,000 cans before hitting a single case of lowfills. There was some other loss to be sure, but not much. Yes there is a learning curve for all machines, however understanding technique and concepts will shorten that window significantly. To me, the key points are customer service (as mentioned), price, reliability, and availability.

            Reality dictates the canning operator will be over worked, under compensated, and improperly educated on the packaging operations. They will be expected to push volume over quality. It benefits to have a machine that is easy to use, train on, maintain, and is extremely durable.

            If you have a skilled operator you plan on keeping, then it pays to invest in more options. I like to have a choice of volume vs timing fills. I like to be able to dial each filler separately. I like precise control of packaging operations, so I favor a Goose (or monobloc). I also like the automatic maintenance reminders, seamer counters, etc. For most of my assistants, a Cask/microcanner/etc would be a better option. If you are the chief operator, go to some other breweries and get familiar. You may preference a certain machine.

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            • #7
              Everything unfermentable has said is spot on. I will say though, some machines without tunnels or without a way of keeping the brewery atmosphere from breezing by open cans is the #1 reason for increased TPO in the cans, I have seen it firsthand. That said, proper fills, and proper precautions will always yield good results. IE: if youre using something that is completely open and unguarded, keep the roll door shut, the A/C off, and make sure you have good fill levels.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by jebzter View Post
                Everything unfermentable has said is spot on. I will say though, some machines without tunnels or without a way of keeping the brewery atmosphere from breezing by open cans is the #1 reason for increased TPO in the cans, I have seen it firsthand. That said, proper fills, and proper precautions will always yield good results. IE: if youre using something that is completely open and unguarded, keep the roll door shut, the A/C off, and make sure you have good fill levels.
                Great point not only in regard to the DO, but in the fact many entry point machines do not offer much protection against foreign objects potentially entering your product stream. You don't want to get sued by that one guy who drank a beer nut washer!

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                • #9
                  I have to say that our CODI is in a closed enclosure with plexiglass doors. Not like what you see on their website. I just asked them to make that for me since I didn't like the fact that it was all open and it doesn't comply with our local safety regulations. The tech that came install the system said that would surely help with DO.

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