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Inline Carbonation Technology - pinpoint vs carb stone

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  • Inline Carbonation Technology - pinpoint vs carb stone

    Hi, I was wondering if anyone knew the underlying difference between a pinpoint carbonator and a carb stone. We want to carbonate straight from the mixing tanks into our counter pressure filler, but some of the products require >3 volumes of carbonation and I see the pinpoint can only do up to 3 volumes. Just wondering what's different between the pinpoint and a standard carb stone for how it injects micro bubbles into the fluid.

  • #2
    I just got a pinpoint carbonator and I've been beating my head against it trying to get it to work as promised. As near as I can tell, it is made to create a massive overpressure zone between two wide flat carb stones. It is a great theory but difficult in practice. I have to use a diaphragm pump to overcome the carb pressure (100 PSI) and the pulses are an issue. I have almost got it dialed in but a carb stone is direct and repeatable, it just takes time.

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    • #3
      We spoke to these people yesterday:
      ProBrew is dedicated to being the best supplier of brewery and beverage processing equipment, technology and services to the craft market.

      Apparently this system is pretty accurate and will save you about 20% over standard method.
      I did nto get specifics on the type of delivery system. The main thing that was sounded was that the setting for each product had to be dialed in, but once gotten it was repeatable and within very narrow tolerance margin.
      Warren Turner
      Industrial Engineering Technician
      HVACR-Electrical Systems Specialist
      Moab Brewery
      The Thought Police are Attempting to Suppress Free Speech and Sugar coat everything. This is both Cowardice and Treason given to their own kind.

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      • #4
        A carb stone relies simply on having the gas pressure in excess of the line pressure to create very small bubbles of gas. Very small bubbles = large surface area compared to the volume. Large bubbles = small surface area compared to volume. The larger the surface area and the higher the overall pressure, the faster the gas will dissolve. Obviously a bit more involved than that, but that is the basis for dissolving gas.

        A pinpoint carbonator is effectively a flattened venturi system, instead of a circular venturi. It relies on high flow rates to break the gas up into very fine bubbles, and a fair bit of pressure to help the CO2 dissolve rapidly and completely in a single pass. Perhaps oddly, in a correctly working venturi system, (whether pinpoint of "conventional" circular), the pressure in the flattened bit is lower than just after the flattened bit, due to the high velocity at that point (a proper engineer, not a mere brewer who has picked up all sorts of crap in 40 years commissioning kit will point you to the calculations if you really want to know). So the high flow and low pressure breaks the gas into very fine bubbles, and due to the high turbulence and high pressure immediately after the flattened bit where the tube reverts to full diameter, the small bubbles stay as small bubbles rather than coalesce, and dissolve rapidly.

        So the problem with the pinpoint using a diaphragm pump with a venturi sytem, (pinpoint or otherwise) is almost certainly down to inadequate (low) flow. When I have commissioned venturi carbonators, we have used flow around 3.5 metres / second in the pipe (possibly more) before and after the venturi, and back pressures of around 4 to 4.5 bar (say 65 psi) plus a static mixer before the back pressure control valve. We were achieving 4.5 to 5.5 gm / litre from around 1.5 to 2.0 gm / litre according to product spec and package type.
        dick

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        • #5
          A pin-point carbonator is supposed to carbonate product under flow. A carb stone generally refers to a tank bottom sparger where the liquid flow is not significant (although not always).

          QuantiPerm offers several different economical automatic carbonation systems. For example, one version can deliver 4 vols carbonation from dead flat (think soda) and send the product directly to a packaging line: https://quantiperm.com/quantiperm-pr...em-xflowsurge/

          Some general background on carbonation systems can be found here: https://beerandbrewing.com/better-ca...ow-technology/
          Mechanical Engineer, QuantiPerm
          www.quantiperm.com

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