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Thread: Name that pump!

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
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    Enterprise, Oregon
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    Name that pump!

    We have three pumps around the brewery that might be Alfa Lavals--or not. I'd like to have some spare seals for them, but they have NO data plates (except the motors) at all. A metal plate at he top of the back showing rotation, nothing else.

    Here's the main suspect:

    Name:  2019-11-20 003 Pump.jpg
Views: 249
Size:  87.1 KBName:  2019-11-20 002 Pump.jpg
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Size:  85.3 KB

    There is this little sticker on the smallest of the three:

    Name:  2019-11-20 001 Pump.jpg
Views: 243
Size:  62.8 KB

    The pump service company that used to work on our pumps--and had all the records--no longer exists.

    TIA!
    Timm Turrentine

    Brewerywright,
    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
    Enterprise. Oregon.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Moab, Utah
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    619

    Topline

    Quote Originally Posted by TGTimm View Post
    We have three pumps around the brewery that might be Alfa Lavals--or not. I'd like to have some spare seals for them, but they have NO data plates (except the motors) at all. A metal plate at he top of the back showing rotation, nothing else.

    Here's the main suspect:

    Name:  2019-11-20 003 Pump.jpg
Views: 249
Size:  87.1 KBName:  2019-11-20 002 Pump.jpg
Views: 240
Size:  85.3 KB

    There is this little sticker on the smallest of the three:

    Name:  2019-11-20 001 Pump.jpg
Views: 243
Size:  62.8 KB

    The pump service company that used to work on our pumps--and had all the records--no longer exists.

    TIA!
    Timm, almost guaranteed its a " Topline " brand. They use that 3A thing. Don at CPE can help you out.
    First serious thread I have seen in ages.

    Star
    Warren Turner
    Industrial Engineering Technician
    HVACR-Electrical Systems Specialist
    Moab Brewery
    " No Cell Phone Zone."

  3. #3
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    Aug 2010
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    Enterprise, Oregon
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    Thanks, Warren! I should have gone to Don to start with. Slipped my mind.
    Timm Turrentine

    Brewerywright,
    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
    Enterprise. Oregon.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Burnaby BC Canada
    Posts
    217

    Looks like a ALFA LAVAL LKH or the older G&H brand GHH pump.

    Quote Originally Posted by TGTimm View Post
    Thanks, Warren! I should have gone to Don to start with. Slipped my mind.
    This looks like a Alfa Laval LKH pump or it's predecessor, the G&H brand GHH pump. We will have seals for both of these but I will need to know the following:

    1) Motor frame size
    2) Inlet and outlet size
    3) Impeller diameter (approximate is ok)

    A picture of the existing seal will help determine if it is a LHK or GHH.
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  5. #5
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    Enterprise, Oregon
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    Thanks!

    Looks like I'll be tearing into that pump today. After I weld the broken loading dock, move an air reservoir, clean the HL system, etc.....
    Timm Turrentine

    Brewerywright,
    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
    Enterprise. Oregon.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    372
    Quote Originally Posted by TGTimm View Post
    Thanks!

    Looks like I'll be tearing into that pump today. After I weld the broken loading dock, move an air reservoir, clean the HL system, etc.....
    Work is never done.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Kentucky
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    564
    I have run into several pumps over the years with missing or defaced name plates. Can be a major PITA for sure, but usually just the electrical side. For pump seals, you can usually just pull the seal and then measure with calipers (preferably digital). Anymore, I don't even look up the manufacturer at all. I just pull the seal and find a suitable replacement.

    https://epm.com/how-to-measure-mechanical-seals

    Then you can purchase a replacement, or upgrade if you prefer a different seal material (Viton, Carbon, Etc). I usually find what I need fairly cheap at US Seal MFG, or Seals Unlimited Inc. McMaster has a number for sale, but the sizes are limited. Grainger may have some too. O-rings can be measured and sourced similarly.

    But, I'd look at the suggested option above first!

  8. #8
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    Oct 2013
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    Kentucky
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    Also just want to mention that the 3-A is a sanitary standard and represents a certified product (like a UL registration). There are many many companies and products that will carry this symbol, and the #02-09 would be an old certificate, but would probably represent centrifugal and positive rotary pumps. (The current certificate for centrifugal and rotary pumps is #02-11)

  9. #9
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    Enterprise, Oregon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thirsty_Monk View Post
    Work is never done.
    Which would explain why I'm here at work on my nominal day off!

    Don at CPE has straightened this out for me. Pump is an AL LKH. I'll be getting the seals on the way.

    Unf--Unfortuately, that isn't a viable option for me, as it would take the pump out of service until I get the seals. As it is, we can still use the pump for CIP until the seals arrive.
    Timm Turrentine

    Brewerywright,
    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
    Enterprise. Oregon.

  10. #10
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    Oct 2013
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    Kentucky
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGTimm View Post
    that isn't a viable option for me, as it would take the pump out of service until I get the seals. As it is, we can still use the pump for CIP until the seals arrive.
    Totally get it - Usually this ends up being the CLT pump that can't afford to go down for even a short interval. I have found this to be my best argument for pump uniformity (as much as possible) and backup/service pump stock, and for union connection into stationary pump installations (TC obviously is similar to a union). You wouldn't necessarily need to wait for new seals, just measure and put back into service, but I understand the point. You may not be able to be down for a short time. It isn't always possible, or affordable, but sure is sweet when you can just swap it out and then rebuild after.

    One more suggestion, on the mounting plate down low or somewhere obvious electro-pencil in the seal part number so that you don't have to remember 10 years from now. And CPE so you know where to get it.
    Last edited by UnFermentable; 11-22-2019 at 02:45 PM.

  11. #11
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    Nov 2009
    Location
    Moab, Utah
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    619

    Appearance

    Quote Originally Posted by TGTimm View Post
    Thanks, Warren! I should have gone to Don to start with. Slipped my mind.
    The main thing that make it look like Topline is the cover over the rotating member.
    This was the tell.
    Warren Turner
    Industrial Engineering Technician
    HVACR-Electrical Systems Specialist
    Moab Brewery
    " No Cell Phone Zone."

  12. #12
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    Aug 2010
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    Enterprise, Oregon
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    I found the data plate for the pump! It's hidden under the shroud over the motor coupling:

    Name:  2019-12-22 001 5hp Pump.jpg
Views: 86
Size:  85.5 KB

    Now I have a new problem. I got the seal kit from CPE--great folks and thanks, Don! But as I was installing the static seal carrier, which threads into the backplate of the pump, it galled and seized just shy of being fully flush. I tried starting the pump with it slightly proud, but no go.

    Name:  2019-12-22 002 5hp Pump.JPG
Views: 83
Size:  93.1 KB

    Any tricks for getting a friction-welded SS threaded part broken loose? I already tried using liquid CO2 to freeze (-60C) the carrier and hopefully shrink it enough to break the bond, but no joy there. White stuff in the picture is dry ice.
    Last edited by TGTimm; 12-23-2019 at 09:20 AM.
    Timm Turrentine

    Brewerywright,
    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
    Enterprise. Oregon.

  13. #13
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    Kentucky
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    I try not to use temperature extremes except as a last resort, so you may be past these already. Sometimes a few good angled whacks from a dead blow hammer can break the bond if it’s just fused at the gall itself. Another trick is to use a palm sander to vibrate the backing plate. It helps if you add WD-40 or some type of penetrating oil to prevent further galling when backing out. Try either one after temp flexing with either a map torch or a liquified gas if you have to. The temp flexing can impact the temper of the metal and this can be extremely dangerous when working with high rotational speeds. It’s not likely you are going to cause those issues on these metals and thinkness, however it is possible.

    If it fit right, I’d take a piece of square tubing, weld it to a harbor freight socket, and impact wrench that **** right out with 700+ ft/lbs of torque. Re-tap before the second go round. Use a Nickel based anti-seize to help prevent galling.

  14. #14
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    Kentucky
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    You might also be able to grind down a cheap pass-through socket (I doubt youll find a square drive one that fits). Most are round, so youd have to square the outer profile to fit around the spindle, and lock on the screw in piece. [o] shape socket is your best bet.

  15. #15
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    Enterprise, Oregon
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    Short of taking the back plate to a good machinist and having the seal carrier cut out and the back plate re-threaded, this is toast. I don't think we have a machine shop around here capable of doing this.

    New back plate: $600. New C216 pump--with much cheaper and easier to replace seals: $2k.
    Timm Turrentine

    Brewerywright,
    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
    Enterprise. Oregon.

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