Dealing with diastaticus on small scale

[brain medicine]

In a brewpub that doesn’t filter, just found out that wb06 is a diastaticus strain, which explains why our pale was always foaming up. We use a blend, with wb06 and t58 in small amounts. (Under 10%)

So given no filtration what do I do here? Cuz we just brewed last week and the beer is done fermenting but haven’t proceeded to dry hop yet.

I believe sorbates can stop this from being too big of an issue, but was also told it won’t work at typical beer ph. I figured I could finish dumping yeast, hit it with sorbates, bubble some n2 to mix and release any sulfur notes, then proceed to dry hop. Anybody know if its effective for beer?

The other option would be to dump yeast, add sugar and a killer yeast like cbc/F2, maybe with dry hops. Let that work over 2-3 day dry hop time and then proceed as normal.

In the future I’ll need a substitute for the wb06 as we dont wanna deal with this all the time, but for now i wanna try and get this batch sorted.

[gitchegumee]

Not my experience...

Don't know about this diastaticus issue. We get FG of 3.4P using WB-06 with no out-of-ordinary issues. There is zero sulfur, no foaming, no high attenuation. Not sure how a diastaticus strain would induce foaming. That seems like an issue of carbonation or a wild yeast infection. I would never use sorbates in a beer. Not because it isn't safe, but because I don't think it's necessary. Sorbates can be effective at finished beer pH. Their use is restricted by law to low ppms, so you must know what you're doing to use them. If you just HAVE to use them, then you should study up: CRC Press Sorbate Food Preservatives, John N. Sofos is your guide here. Bubbling N2, CO2, or anything through finished beer just knocks out delicate aromas that you would want to keep, lowers the potential for foam-positive proteins to form foam in the glass, and generally rips the beer apart. Makes a mess in the fermenters, too. Recommend against this. And also against adding exogenous cane or beet sugar to a beer. Your customers should demand better than these techniques. My suggestion would be to dry hop to foam up the beer and knock out any sulfur. Maybe kraeusen your beer with another gyle from a newly pitched wort to add back body, foam, and nuance from another strain. Or add DME or CBW or candy sugar. Or, worse case you learn from this and serve what you have and make the next one from a single strain of yeast with simple and known techniques for an uncomplicated beer style. Learn complexity and complicated beer styles slowly and deliberately without these sorts of issues popping up. Don't go overboard with draconian solutions. Keep it simple! I don't think great beer needs to be complicated. It can be difficult to brew consistently, but results can be delicate, balanced, and nuanced using simple ingredients with rigorous, purposeful techniques.

[Rosie]

The only issues we had with this yeast were our hot forced bottled samples which saw a big drop in gravity at the 3 month or so mark. If you are keeping it cold and shifting it quick, like we were with our kegged version of this beer, you most likely won't have an issue.

Not sure why you'd use WB06 or T58 in a pale ale, but if you are worried about it, drop it.

Fermentis listed WB06 as var Diastaticus in the spring of 2018 https://fermentis.com/wp-content/upl...WB-06_Rev1.pdf

[gitchegumee]

Maybe that's it...

I have only used this in a fast-moving draft German-style wheat beer. Delicious and moves very fast, so never stored more than a month or 6 weeks from kegging. Not stored, shipped, nor served warm (as in through chiller plates). So perhaps it would attenuate and gush if it were to be stored/served warm, or if it were bottled/canned and displayed at ambient for longer periods. I just don't know, but would like to hear whether this has been an issue and how others have dealt with that.

[brain medicine]

The only issues we had with this yeast were our hot forced bottled samples which saw a big drop in gravity at the 3 month or so mark. If you are keeping it cold and shifting it quick, like we were with our kegged version of this beer, you most likely won't have an issue.

Not sure why you'd use WB06 or T58 in a pale ale, but if you are worried about it, drop it.

Fermentis listed WB06 as var Diastaticus in the spring of 2018 https://fermentis.com/wp-content/upl...WB-06_Rev1.pdf

Yeah, well we didn’t get that memo. So your post in another thread telling Phil was when we learned. About 2 days after we brewed most recent batch. Going forward I can swap it for another dry wheat strain, sure. But this ones already going and too late to stop.

As a brewpub our batches sit in the tank for a while. It’s always at 40f, but im guessing that’s technically enough to get small amounts of activity.

All moot point as we’ll stop using that one. But this most recent batch is fucked. Because we’re on lockdown for Coronavirus and no idea when w e will reopen. So all I can do now is drop the yeast in the cone and let it sit and age in the ferm. When we reopen I can figure out how to deal with it. But it seems sorbates will work even at beer ph. The other option is the killer yeast for conditioning. Guess I’ve got some time to figure it out. Will be interesting to see how it acts at room temp.

[callmetim]

I stopped using WB-06 for the foaming issue as well. If you move through product quickly its fine but at about 60 days you'll start noticing a difference. I am using a 50/50 blend of T-58 and S-33 at 75%-80% of normal pitching rates and ferment at 78 with excellent results.

[brain medicine]

I stopped using WB-06 for the foaming issue as well. If you move through product quickly its fine but at about 60 days you'll start noticing a difference. I am using a 50/50 blend of T-58 and S-33 at 75%-80% of normal pitching rates and ferment at 78 with excellent results.

What style of beer? What sort of profile? We like what we get now, but no way I’m keeping the wb06.

[callmetim]

What style of beer? What sort of profile? We like what we get now, but no way I’m keeping the wb06.

Belgian Tripel. Lots of banana and clove and it stays in suspension too

[brain medicine]

we were getting more of a tropical bubble gum type mix. not looking for phenolics. i'm gonna have to just see what other wheat strains are there, luckily at the small amounts we use in this blend i can pick any of the wheat yeasts, not limited to dry.

[brain medicine]

and to note, its been around 60 days since we brewed. after it finished, i dropped the yeast best i could, then shut everything down back around end of march. we shut down the glycol, so this beer has been at room temp in the conical, mid 60s.

i went back to brewery recently to grab some stuff, and while i didnt check the gravity, the pressure gauge was nearly up to 10psi. thats from probably 1-2psi i had on it to help dump the yeast, assuming i didnt bleed that off. still, thats a lot of pressure for a beer that was "finished" fermenting.

[gitchegumee]

So what were the tasting notes? Gravity drop? That's really the rubber/road issue, right? If I were going to store that long, would have moved to another tank to get the liquid off the yeast/bottoms. And much colder, too. But that's me without knowing your particular situation. 10psi isn't too much at 60F. Far from what you'd want from a spunding/natural carbonation technique. I think that wheat beers in particular gain character from indigenous carbonation. Fine bubbles, tight lacing, long retention as compared to exogenous, forced carbonation. Now that I'm thinking of it, getting thirsty!