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  • #16
    MY Reinheitsgebot Diatribe

    I have been brewing in Europe since 2000 and I have never heard the rule where you must rinse the sanitizer prior to use. And not to be an arshole I have had more infected micro brews from Europe than I care to count. Something is wrong if you cant use advancement in bio-chemical industies becuase of an old law that no one really follows anymore anyway,at least like it was meant be. If you followed it then you wouldnt brew lagers in the summer and more silliness... Now a days many use this word to fool the public into believing that if it's Reinheitsgebot then its better.

    Im all for experimentation and who cares about some 500 year old rule.. I hope people dont automaticaly assimulate the "Reinheitsgebot" to European brewing. I dont even think many German brewers really follow it any more... If I see one more Cherry Porter from germany Im going to puke...
    www.Lervig.no

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    • #17
      I know it's not maybe a well-known source, but it's something that agrees with me :~)
      "The food & beverage industries started to find applications for PA due to its antimicrobial properties & the abscence of toxic residues. PA is now commonly used in dairies, wineries, soft drinks plant, canneries, railroad tankers & meat & poultry processing plants The food industry values PA's nonrinse feature in high dilutions as an advantage in time & money since the breakdown products of PA do not affect taste, toxicity, or odor."

      from "Liquid Chemical Sterilization" (Central Service Association of Ontario -
      csao.net is your first and best source for all of the information you’re looking for. From general topics to more of what you would expect to find here, csao.net has it all. We hope you find what you are searching for!

      cheers
      Mike McG

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      • #18
        I was also taught adn told by my chemical guy that I don't have to run a rinse cycle after sanitizing with iodaphor. I usually spritz out the cone to not damage the yeast, but that was a practice I adopted myself after being told it was not necessary to begin with. I am very anal about using the correct concentrations, but it seems according to Dick, and others that this is not a good practice. I think Jaye mentioned he has switched sanitizers also. I would love to see some consensus on this topic.

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        • #19
          I have experienced beer contaminated with iodophor (and chlorine) residues from sanitisers that were not rinsed off. I know of beer being destroyed in brewery due to PAA residues affecting the flavour - probably it has to be said due to a puddle in the bottom of the tank rather than just surface film, but as a result - all sterilants get washed off. And yes, you are correct. If the terminal rinse isn't sterile, then you simply re-infect. So perhaps it is time to move on to ClO2 or possibly even ozone for certain uses, both as sterilant at highish levels, and for sterilising risne water
          dick

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          • #20
            CIP sanitize

            I like to rinse with >170f water after my sanitizer, not to get the tank hot, just use the hot liquor as the rinse, because most cold water is not sterile.

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            • #21
              Just to try to clarify this - is there a legal EC directive instructing brewers in Europe to rinse off products such as Peracetic?

              If so, there's going to be a fair few who will have to change their CIP procedures.
              Cheers
              Mike McG

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              • #22
                Good Manufacturung Practice

                Switzerland is not part of the EU but I imagine that the food hygiene laws are similar.

                The swiss food hygiene laws require food manufacturers to implement HACCP (Hazard Ananysis Critical Control Points) systems which include cleaning and disinfection protocolls.
                The guiding priciple for each individual foodstuff is Good Manufacturing Practice (GMP). This means for brewers that cleaning/disinfection protocolls should be implemented and maintained. The implementation must be dokumented in some form and is subject to inspection .
                The disinfection protocoll must ensure that disinfestant does not come into contact with the foodstuff. How this is acheived is up to the manufacturer - or brewer. Rinsing with potable water is the usual way.

                Any protocoll that does not cater for rinsing of disinfectant - PAA is included here - will not pass inspection. It may be that the tank film residues are so small as to be of no consequence, but accidents can and do happen. Food manufacturers are required by law to do their proven best to prevent such accidents.

                Of course it is possible to have these protocolls and not stick to them, it's up to the brewer. IMHO that is a cop out and bad workmanship.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Michael Murphy
                  I employ a hot water tank flush. followed with 65C caustic CIP 30 mins or so, and usually a hot water flush as a sanitizer.

                  I hot water flush my hoses and tubing as a sanitizer. Occasionaly I miss the hot water and revert to a P.Acid sanitizer.

                  Occasionally I hit the tanks with an Acid cycle. but I am CIPing with RO water so Im not using high concentrations of alka rinser.

                  On the hot side, Kettle, HE, flash pasteurizer I use and acid - alka-rinse cycle.

                  Of course the chem salesman would like me to use an Alka- Acid-Sanitizer every time. But I dont.
                  We do the same, HOt flush followed by caustic at 65C and then follow with 80C water. We never sterilise tanks with acid. Any bugs in the water have been killed off because the water has been heated to 100C

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