external calandria design

[dereknobleluke]

Hey there!

We are in the process of needing/acquiring/manufacturing an additional external calandria as our kettle takes FOREVER to bring to a boil

New kettle with low pressure jackets (two zone).
Wort volume is 37 bbl total.
But even after wort collection the kettle can take up to 2 hours additional to boil, causing massive havoc in brew shifts for a two brewer day including a filtration, tank cleaning, and (2) 30 bbl kettles including exchanges to fermentor.

I know that the manufacturer has sent us designs for their calandria I would want to share with thermodynamics folks interested in reviewing their plans/making sure they are sound.

I know that calandrias can be a bitch to clean, so access to the inner workings of them is a must--right?

anyhoo...any info about these things would be great! THANKS!

[Moonlight]

Why not install an internal calandria?
It will be cheaper and easier to clean.

[Alex T]

Hi,

I think perhaps a better (more energy efficient) solution may perhaps be to do a variation on the energy storage system that Steinecker, amongst others, utilise in their designs:

1) install a vapour condenser on both kettles (essentially shell and tube heat exchanger)

2) during boil condense the vapour and produce hot (say 95degC) water - you could circulate from your existing hot liquor tank and use the heat to keep it damn hot....

3) install a plate heat exchanger between LT and kettle. heat the wort with the hot water you produce in step one.... will probably pay for itself as you are using less heat and reducing your labour at the same time. Any heat exchanger supply company can furnish you with a quote provided you give them all of the temperatures you require....

You won't get up to boiling temp, but provided your heat exchanger is big enough, and water is hot enough, you should be able to get from say 70degC to 90degC, and then just let your steam jackets do the rest.....

Oh, and one more thing - before all of this, make sure you don't have a maintenance issue - steam trap blocked or something....

Cheers,

Alex

[beertje46]

Hey there!

We are in the process of needing/acquiring/manufacturing an additional external calandria as our kettle takes FOREVER to bring to a boil

New kettle with low pressure jackets (two zone).
Wort volume is 37 bbl total.
But even after wort collection the kettle can take up to 2 hours additional to boil, causing massive havoc in brew shifts for a two brewer day including a filtration, tank cleaning, and (2) 30 bbl kettles including exchanges to fermentor.

I know that the manufacturer has sent us designs for their calandria I would want to share with thermodynamics folks interested in reviewing their plans/making sure they are sound.

I know that calandrias can be a bitch to clean, so access to the inner workings of them is a must--right?

anyhoo...any info about these things would be great! THANKS!

As AlexT suggested, I would check your steam piping first.
Do you have an air vent, vacuum relief, and pressure gauge on each jacket? Clean all your traps and screens, ensure the floats in the condensate return valves are clean and operable. Do you fire the bottom jacket with first wort and the upper jackets as they are covered?

I have yet to see a steam brew kettle of any size/pressure with an inadequate amount of steam jacket surface area to rapidly boil wort. My experience says; poor design, installation, and maintenance of the steam delivery and return system is number one in poor heat transfer. Number two is waiting too long to fire the system.

Good luck and let us know what you do.

[dereknobleluke]

For some reason, the problem has slowly started to correct itself. Achieving boil has become faster, but it still seems to take a bit longer than I would like. Further, the boil has become more vigourous, but not to exactly what I would prefer.

I installed a "T" on the out of the kettle jackets with a 3/4" ball valve poiting downward. When we first send steam in, this valve is completely open an once the condensate begins to pour out of it, we restrict it until the liquid is super hot (about 15 minutes). I know that we are going through boiler treatment faster this way, but it seems to help.

Something obviously is still wrong, as we shouldn't need to do this step. So I was still thinking about getting an external calandria and heating the wort evenly during collection through just this (a suggestion from Al at Harpoon), and then once the kettle has just achieved boil, use the jackets for the duration. This provides a faster and more even heat up as ALL liquid passes through the calandria and makes for a uniform temperature increase, rather than just working from the sides in.

So. Any "calandria" manufactures out there? It would be an external device...

[MatthewS]

Hey Derek,

Call Dave Howard (Howie) at Wachusett. They have a nice set up with an external calandria. I believe Rolec designed it, and it works amazing for them.

Good luck and I am planning a visit for next week.
Matthew

[dereknobleluke]

actually left kevin a message this morning and sent Rolek an email last week. Which day are you thinking? We brew on wednesday next week

Cheers
DEREK

[MatthewS]

maybe wednesday then.

I will send you a text...

[BrewinLou]

Check all your condensate traps. If it works better when you open your bottom valve you are not getting your condensate back or fast enough.
How big is your boiler and how big is your kettle? Are you running anything else while trying to boil?

[jcrjustin]

external wort boiler

We had the same issues with a poorly designed kettle and recently installed an external wort boiler. It has been working great for us. Give me a call 406 425-2637 and I'd be happy to share my thoughts, experiences, costs and manufacturer of it.