Our boiler issue

[fa50driver]

We inherited a 850btu boiler with our used 20 Bbl brew house. The previous owners (we haven't had contact) had the boiler installed within a few feet of the brew house. Our state regs required us to move our boiler into an adjacent room about 60+ ft away. After what seems like forever, we finally had it hooked up and test fired it with about 17 bbls of water. After an hour from ambient water temp (70ish) with both jackets at 13 psi, it seemed to peak at about 207 degrees F. Our 2.5 inch main steam line is un-insulated, so we ordered some two inch thick insulation and are holding our breath that the increase in efficiency is going to get us boiling water (and hopefully sugary wort too) I'm very much afraid if we don't see a marked increase in output. Any similar experiences in efficiency gains from insulating steam lines? Any other ideas on increasing efficiency (additives to boiler water, etc) if the insulation won't do the trick?

[Guestimate]

You will notice a HUGE difference. With 60' of uninsulated line I am surprised you were able to get above 200 degrees.

Kevin

[fa50driver]

That is exactly what I was hoping to hear. Insulation being shipped out today - should be able to test again this weekend.

[Roger Greene]

Did you manage to get a look at the steam jackets before hooking everything up? Any calcium or magnesium deposits on the jacket can greatly reduce efficiencies. If there are any in the jackets then there would most likely be some in the boiler as well. Even just a mm or two can really have an impact.

[fa50driver]

Thx Roger - no we didn't look at the jackets, but I suspect we will unhook everything and look if the pipe insulation doesn't do the trick. What types of additives are people adding to the boiler water to prevent calcium buildups? We have fairly high carbonate levels in our water, but out boiler tech didn't have any suggestions.

[Sulfur]

no additives. At least for small boiler systems. You should have a water softener though.

[Roger Greene]

I am not sure exactly what you could add, but check with the supplier to get the water requirements for that boiler.

[cpelz]

I'd check with boiler water treatment specialist. Our local CH2O representative has been a great help over the years. We have a 1.44 MBTU boiler which we treat with a sulfite oxygen scavenger, an alkaline compound which I believe buffers the boiler water pH and an amine that goes out with the steam and drops the condensate pH.

For a while our rep tested the boiler water himself but he eventually set us up with testing compounds we use weekly. Our raw water is low in Ca so we don't soften. In a recent inspection we saw mostly iron scale.

Your mileage will definitely vary so check with a pro. Steam systems are fascinatingly complex.

[fa50driver]

Thx for the wisdom - will put it to use. One bit of my own wisdom to pass on - If you are trying to save money and have a do-it-yourself attitude... pass on the installation of the insulation. Pay someone else to do it. That stuff really sucks.

[BeersmithMT]

Ditto on installing a water softener, but the water must be hot before entering the boiler - we have the softener feeding a water heater set at 140F, which supplies makeup water to the boiler. On a boiler that size all you should need is the softener and an oxygen scavenger. IMO if you add anything else you are just wasting money and putting unnecessary chemicals (NAOH) into the wastewater stream.

Yes, installing the insulation sucks. You should also install the plastic cladding for the insulation if possible, it keeps that stuff from getting wet and nasty.

[fa50driver]

Update - still not boiling....

We finished installing all of the insulation on all feeder lines and fired up the boiler with both bottom and side jackets open. At about 13 psi we were able to get the water on the side jacket to boil pretty well, but when I shut the side jacket off, all I had was some random bubbles coming up from the bottom jacket. My thoughts are that she is full of mineral scale as Mr. Greene had hypothesized. The Kettle is about 20 years old, which makes it that much more likely that mineral scale is the issue. I was reading our boiler manual, and as Mr. Greene stated, a little scale appears to go a long way in reducing energy transfer efficiencies (3/16 of an inch = 27% loss in boiler efficiency, so I suspect that jacket scale is similar...)

So.... how does one go about cleaning out jackets? My thoughts are that protocol would be to use a mild acid and circulate with a low pressure pump (well below 15psi) drain, and repeat. Does anyone have any experience with this process? My boiler manual recommends Tri-sodium phosphate. Not sure if that would apply to the kettle jackets as well...

[kugeman]

Are you sure there isn't water collecting in the bottom jacket? I worked at a brewery that had a similar problem once upon a time, and it turned out that our condensate return had a problem and water was collecting in the bottom jacket.

[fa50driver]

Anything is possible, but our condensate return pump is cycling and there are condensate drains/traps on all elbows in the system that are functioning as far as I can tell. There is also no knocking which I have read is usually indicative of water in the system. It would seem, though, that since our boiler is able to maintain 13 psi, and our feeder lines are large enough according to the engineer who helped design the system (2.5 inch), that we either have an energy transfer issue or a flow issue at the bottom jacket. Both could be caused by scale buildup, I suspect, but if our piping was incorrect, that would certainly cause a flow issue. One of my engineer friends is going to get me a small camera so that I can take a peek into the jackets.

Pretty soon I'm just going to throw a full cord of wood under the kettle and light it. I bet I could get water to boil then....

[HinduKush]

Do you have auto-air vents and vacuum breakers on each jacket? My install sounds much like yours in regards to distance from boiler and boiler size. My jackets (3) usually have around 10 psi at boil. I generally turn off the upper most jacket @ boil.

[HighWaterBrew]

Have you confirmed your jacket steam pressure, if you are putting out 13 psi at the boiler and you are piping it 65' I would suspect you will have pressure drops along the way. Eng. calcs are a great start but I would check actual pressure delivered at kettle. Can you raise pressure out of boiler any amount?