G.W. Kent Monobloc Bottling Line

[Noble Brewing]

We're getting ready to secure an order on a bottling line and have been reviewing a few different lines. However I just recently came aware of a new brewery Monobloc from G.W. Kent that is much like the their wine Monobloc. I believe it's a 16/4 with a twist rinser and runs around $74k new. It seems to be a fairly new product for them judging that they don't have any info on it other than a video which makes me quite nervous.

Here is a YouTube video;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIRdte7SN7k

Is anyone familiar with this line and if so let me know what you think. One of those things that there is no way I am going to buy it unless I can talk with some folks who are actually using it.

Cheers -

[HinduKush]

We're getting ready to secure an order on a bottling line and have been reviewing a few different lines. However I just recently came aware of a new brewery Monobloc from G.W. Kent that is much like the their wine Monobloc. I believe it's a 16/4 with a twist rinser and runs around $74k new. It seems to be a fairly new product for them judging that they don't have any info on it other than a video which makes me quite nervous.

Here is a YouTube video;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIRdte7SN7k

Is anyone familiar with this line and if so let me know what you think. One of those things that there is no way I am going to buy it unless I can talk with some folks who are actually using it.

Cheers -

FWIW, that is a rotary rinser in the video. Smaller footprint than a twisty.

[ottonut]

I believe Erie Brewing has one and from what I've heard it's working for them.

[fullmoonwinery]

this looks exactly the same as my machine from China, but a few more heads. i have 14-12-4 heads, 1200b/hr (maybe up to 2000b/hr) and i paid 30,000USD. 6000b/hr for $70k from a respected US company sounds like a good deal to me. certainly if you are in the US that looks like a better option; for me in Thailand, China is a lot more convenient and cheaper but what a headache on the service side.

anyhow, i guess the design is the same on all these 3in1 monoblock machines since my machine looks absolutely identical to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naZ3F6uTtOo an i do mean identical, right down to the label printing on he heads, the Chinese writing on the pressure gauge and the lime green vacuum pump. i suspect the Kent machine is made around the same place as mine but at least you have the benefit (all be it more than $30/day) of service from a US technician.

i wonder if anyone can point me to a set of user, service and setup manuals for a machine like this? all i have is an auto translation of a Chinese manual which doesn't say anything useful in the first place.

thx, steve

[akinales]

We are also shopping for a bottling line of this variety and have been wondering about this machine in particular. Anyone else got any other comments on the GW Kent monoblocs or any other monobolcs that we should be looking at?

[fullmoonwinery]

We are also shopping for a bottling line of this variety and have been wondering about this machine in particular. Anyone else got any other comments on the GW Kent monoblocs or any other monobolcs that we should be looking at?

i have bought from china so its probably a different situation buying in the US, but from my experience so far, make sure you fully understand and see in action every part of the machine, even the less obvious parts like the air jet that blows crown caps into the capper head and the foam spray thing and especially the vacuum pump setup, that's a real pain.

and most importantly, check the manuals and see if they have a good level of detail.

unfortunately, for a beginner like my self with no experience with these things, the only way to learn is the hard way; buy one and try set it up. in the US i assume you have a guy from the factory come set it up for you. sounds great but you could miss the 'no pain no gain' part of the joy of owning a monoblock filler.

[fullmoonwinery]

one thing about my machine which is seriously annoying. when i start it up with an empty beer header tank, and it starts filling the tank, the beer comes shooting out of filler heads at the back of the filler, the ones facing the capper.

we have to hold down the leaky control valves until there is enough pressure in the tank to push the heads down into the sealed position, then it is ok.

is this normal behavior for filling machines of is there something wrong with mine?

[PanConsulting]

I have experience with many fillers but not that particular one. It sounds like you have too much pressure and you are forcing open the valves on the filler. The valves should always remain sealed. If I could see a better picture of your filler and your tank I may be able to help you more. Is there pressurized lift cylinders that are used to lift the bottle up to the seals? If so what is the pressure of that and what is the pressure on your beer tank? You don’t want more pressure on your beer tank than you have on your lift cylinders.

[Guestimate]

one thing about my machine which is seriously annoying. when i start it up with an empty beer header tank, and it starts filling the tank, the beer comes shooting out of filler heads at the back of the filler, the ones facing the capper.

we have to hold down the leaky control valves until there is enough pressure in the tank to push the heads down into the sealed position, then it is ok.

is this normal behavior for filling machines of is there something wrong with mine?

Steve,

I am not familiar with your terminology, but I am assuming the "beer header tank" is the filler bowl (chamber above the fill heads that holds beer). It sounds like you are filling the bowl with little to no head pressure. Regardless of the leaking valves, you should pre-pressurize the filler bowl to keep co2 in solution while filling the bowl. When you start up and fill the bowl with beer do you see any foam on top of the beer in the filler bowl sight glass?

Kevin

[fullmoonwinery]

Steve,

I am not familiar with your terminology, but I am assuming the "beer header tank" is the filler bowl (chamber above the fill heads that holds beer). It sounds like you are filling the bowl with little to no head pressure. Regardless of the leaking valves, you should pre-pressurize the filler bowl to keep co2 in solution while filling the bowl. When you start up and fill the bowl with beer do you see any foam on top of the beer in the filler bowl sight glass?

Kevin

hi, thanks for the answer, yes i am referring to the 'filler bowl', i don't know the correct terminology for all these parts.

i understand that i have to pressurize the filler bowl with CO2 first now you come to mention it, i had forgot that. i haven't actually run any beer though the machine yet, i'm still setting it up and testing with water. i guess that CO2 pre-pressurization is necessary for two reasons, 1) stop the beer turning into a foam monster as it enters the tank the first time and 2) keep O2 away from the beer.

on the 2nd point about keeping O2 out of the system, does this mean i should pressurize with CO2 and purge and re-pressurize a couple of times before starting to pump the beer in, to try eliminate as much O2 as possible?

thanks

[fullmoonwinery]

here is another good video with beer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FCbF-ZFhVA&NR=1

i was watching the bottles coming out of the filling part and into the crown capper. they seem to be foaming by them selves. i see this machine has the dual water spray to create foam (center frame about 34 seconds into video) but i cannot see any water coming out of it.

do most people use the foaming spray system? it doesn't look like its used in this video and it seems to have plenty of foam going into the crown capper.

i am thinking about modifying my machine a little and putting a CO2 nozzle pointing into the neck, as close to the crown capping head as possible. i'll use a microswitch to detect bottle position and give a quick squirt of CO2 directly into the head space just before the cap plunged comes down.

i figure this will work better than the water spray idea, will not change fill level and will not require lots of sanitizing and pure water supply. it seems such an obvious idea, i wonder what this design isn't standard. am i missing something?


thanks again

[PanConsulting]

I looked at that video and it doesn’t appear they have any water jet shooting into the bottles. I am willing to bet based on inconstancies of the foam, there will be inconsistencies in the air content inside each bottle. The bottles should foam right up to the top of the bottle to push the air out, right before the crown is applied. I don’t see that in the video. I have always used a filtered high pressure water jet or nitrogen depending on the products. Depending on how you use the CO2 you could make it hard to breath depending on your ventilation system. In addition is will be expensive.

[fullmoonwinery]

I looked at that video and it doesn’t appear they have any water jet shooting into the bottles. I am willing to bet based on inconstancies of the foam, there will be inconsistencies in the air content inside each bottle. The bottles should foam right up to the top of the bottle to push the air out, right before the crown is applied. I don’t see that in the video. I have always used a filtered high pressure water jet or nitrogen depending on the products. Depending on how you use the CO2 you could make it hard to breath depending on your ventilation system. In addition is will be expensive.

thanks, actually i do plan to use nitrogen in the filling machine, not CO2

also i installed a micro-switch that sense exactly when the bottle is passing into the capper and at the very last moment before the cap goes on, i give a short squirt of gas (in 2 places actually) into the head space. its only a 1/2 second burst so it doesn't use much gas.

on a related subject, my machine is identical to the ones in these videos. the bottles are open to nature all the way from filling to capping. would it make sense to place some kind of cover over the tops of the bottles in this area? something like a crescent shaped stainless steel plate then rests very lightly on the tops of the bottles, just under its own weight. the idea would be to protect the CO2 (or N) in the head space from mixing with outside air until it gets to the capper.

seems like a cheap and easy modification. is there any downside to it?

[PanConsulting]

I think that half moon stainless plate is a good idea to protect open bottles from flying glass, dirt, etc that may fall into the bottles. Resting the plate on the bottles is not a good idea because you could be picking up bacteria, dirt, etc that may be resting on the bottom of that plate. Does your product foam at all? I would test the air content of the bottles you are blowing CO2 into to see if it is making any difference in your airs. What is the CO2 content of your product that you are running?

[ParishBrewingCo]

Bumping this to the top. I'm curious if anyone has any other input to add on these GWKent monoblocs.

Thanks in advance for any info.

Andrew