More body in a stout

[Kushal]

I am looking for ideas to build the body of an ~8%abv stout.

I have liked some stouts done with lactose, but our brewery has a reputation for being vegan (as many of our neighbors are not).

I currently use oatmeal in my porter, and have used flaked barley before, but find that more than 5-7% of the grist really does a number on the mash and isn't getting me the body I want.

Thinking i need lots of unfermentables, but don't want a sugar bomb.

I would love to hear some methods/ideas you all have,
Cheers,

[beauxman]

What is your final gravity?

[Ted Briggs]

Thick, high temp mash with some oats or flaked barley and a high OG should get you there. ie: 1 quart/ pnd, 154-156, 5%, 14-16p. Also a English yeast strain will help over 1056/american ale strain.

[jerrymcmahan]

Try flaked wheat. It's not as sticky as flaked barley but will still contribute plenty of proteins and glucans. It also has a lower lipid content than barley and, especially, oats so it should be more stable.

[liammckenna]

I would recommend trying Fawcett & Sons malted oats.

Nice silky mouthfeel.

We use it at a rate of about 12% in our St. John's Stout. High %, I know. And although it can be a little difficult to work with (very different mill setting, relatively viscous wort) it definitely suits this beer. which has an OG of 13.0 and is about 4.8% ABV. (there is also a significant percentage roast barley and crystal malt in this beer which also contribute their own unfermentables body/mouthfeel/viscosity)

Also, compared to flaked barley, oats or wheat, malted oats still have their husk thus easing lautering somewhat compared to the flaked form.

We get ours through North Country.

And to echo Ted, a thick mash, single step downward infusion, 68oC or so.

Pax.

Liam

[Kushal]

Thanks, some good ideas here.

beauxman - this is not a beer I have brewed yet, but I was thinking of an imperial stout I have brewed before at about 20P SG 4.5P FG.

liammckenna - Malted oats. I have used a touch of the "Golden Naked Oats" before as a small amount of the grist for a little taste of something different in an IPA. How would I set the mill differently for using a large percentage of malted oats (are the grains smaller or larger)? Also do the malted oats add a lot of fermentables? Are they sweet?

High mash temp, thick mash for sure, but as much as possible trying to avoid anything to sweet, so lots of roast and a high bitterness.

Cheers, any other advice most welcome.

[liammckenna]

Hey Kushal.

You could get the specs from Fawcett's or North Country. Google it.

I know I have lot analysis sheets around. PM me an I'll ensure to forward them.

I get mine pre-milled. Simpler than adjusting the mill for a couple of bucks a bag. Mill Setting? Less than your standard pale. I hesitate to suggest roller gap because it depends so much on your infeed rate, motor size, roller size/design and consequently, 'pinch point' between the rollers.

The kernels are long and thin. It is self converting. Extract is significantly lower than other pale malts. It is not 'sweet'.

Vague, I know. I wish you luck.

Pax.

Liam

[Kushal]

Thanks Liam, I had not thought of getting it pre milled. Good idea. Last Time I messed with my mill gap for a rye beer it was a sad day.

I am thinking after hearing all this advice of trying 10% malted oats and 5% Flaked wheat, lots of roast and dark caramel with a warm thick mash.

Cheers.

[Capt. Bob]

Thick, high temp mash with some oats or flaked barley and a high OG should get you there. ie: 1 quart/ pnd, 154-156, 5%, 14-16p. Also a English yeast strain will help over 1056/american ale strain.

What he said...Do that...or 10% Rye...

[Kushal]

Little bump on this, as the Stout was pushed off, but now slated for brewing early October.

I plan on using Oats and wheat 10-15% Possibly malted oats, flaked wheat, or possibly carawheat and flaked oats.

Black malt 5-10% - Carafa3, Patagonia dark chocolate, IDK.

Black barley5% -still deciding

Dark Xtal 10% - Probably Special B from Castle

60-70% base - Rahr 2row with Vienna to create a Pale malt like body.

Small amount of sugar in the kettle - raw brown or molasses.

Lots to still nail down here....

Here is the first big question:
Any one use maltodextrin in the kettle?
I want a full bodied stout, without sweetness. I will be mashing warm and balancing with higher IBUs, but I am stuck with our house yeast (chico) on this one, which is very attenuative for us.
Maltodextrin sounded like a good way to add some body without sweetness.
5-7#/bbl for a 1P increase? is this accurate? (info from other posts regarding maltodextrin on this site)

Second. I have only ever home brewed with molasses. It has never been an easy substance to work with (laggy ferments). Anyone have good results with molasses (I love the flavors) and advice on quantities/time to add they can share?

Thanks

[Ray Hodge]

I used the unsulphured molasses in a Russian imperial stout, as I recall maybe 2 gals in 15 Bbls, it was very good. Its sometimes called sweet molasses and does not contain the added sulphur needed to refine molasses to the blackstrap stage.

[gdebisschop]

In my experience the answer to this is all about base malt and yeast selection. Pick the right yeast that is attenuative enough but leaves a full-bodied character (not necessarily sugar)- preferably one you know well- and a substantial base malt- probably from england/scotland, probably Maris Otter.

cheers
geoff