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This is a warning stemming from our experiences dealing with with D.S.E. / Delong System and Equipment also known as Domex Ltd ,Dinghe Equipment and Huizhou tripod and System Equipment Co., Ltd.
Last year we placed an order with D.S.E. for a 20bbl brewhouse and 5 FV’s and a range of bits of equipment including a mill, keg washer and a 100 kegs.
DSE promised a lot and our experience with them through the quoting period was very positive. We checked breweries who had bought from them , Parrotdog here in NZ (FV's and Brites) and Sanctum Brewing in California (brewhouse) and both of them were positive. A fellow brewer who was going to source a brewery from them flew to China and inspected the plant and liked what he saw.
After we placed our order in July and Aug 2014 and paid our deposit the woman we were dealing with, Joyce, disappeared and with no explanation I started dealing with another woman called Alice.
Alice was far less communicative. Our deadline approached and we were told the order wasn’t 'quite' ready. Some months later with lots of talk of it 'nearly' being ready we were told it was almost ready and it was time to pay the remainder of the invoice and we were also offered some good freight prices . We paid the invoice and freight. Months passed with nothing but the run around , start of this year with Chinese New Year approaching we enlisted the help of Brew-tek a brewery stainless engineering firm based in China but run by an American and a Kiwi. They inspected the plant and started acting on our behalf.
Chinese New Year came and went , promises were made and broken. Finally in April we sent Brew-Tek in again and found the plant ready to be sent apart from the burners that still had not been ordered in. We made the call to source burners in NZ and got it moving 7 months later than had been promised.
While our inspections revealed a decent standard of workmanship where things were visible here are some of the not so good things they revealed.
- On the first inspection it was admitted that one of our FVs had been used as a show model at a brewexpo in Beijing and had suffered scratches in transit
- The mash/lauter tun which we had paid $1000 USD extra to have a jacket fitted for temperature steps was built without the jacket
- The vapour condenser that we paid $1000 USD extra for was not built.
- the last inspection showed that the FVs that had originally been built for us, and paid for by us, were then sold to another customer. Part of our delays were as they raced to rebuild our FVs
- it was clear that the sales side of the company and the production side didn't communicate at all well. Also lots of their sales reps did under the table deals using the company factory to produce equipment without the company profiting from them.
-it is not yet clear whether our FVs have insulation in them or not.
- During one inspection the head of the sales team actively tried to jump ship and secure a job with Brew-Tek admitting that D.S.E. was a bad company.
Several months ago we were informed that Alice had been sacked and Ken the head of sales took over dealing with us. He promised that we would be compensated for the delay with free equipment, and some free freight.
Our order finally left, 7 months late, we thought this would be a time for celebration . However we received an email from them to our agents Brew-Tek claiming they had spent the money we had paid for freight and could no longer afford to ship the goods, they wanted Brew-Tek to lend them the money, a request that Brew-Tek naturally declined. When our containers landed they were put on hold while they checked that freight had been paid to the Chinese freight forwarder. Mercifully it had, but that took about 5 years off my life.
Now that the plant has arrived we have found some other issues that are continuing to cause us delays and cost us money. One of the excuses offered for the delay was that D.S.E. were going to great lengths to insure that they were supplying the correct electrical components , we have since discovered that the mill and rake motors have both been set up for American 3 phase rather than NZ power. We also found that instead of the 15sm heat exchanger that we ordered and paid for we were supplied a 6sm one. The control box has also proved to be missing many of the VFD’s required to drive the brewery.
We also found that the supports under the false bottom of the MLT were constructed of low grad stainless steel which proceeded to rust and had to be replaced.
We received an email from Kelvin the CEO of the company claiming they have lost money on a deal with an American brewery and couldn’t currently repay the money they owed us back which currently is as follows:
MLT Jacket $1000 USD
Burners $3100 USD
Condenser $1000 USD
Refund for wrong heat exchanger $1000 USD
Refund for lack of VFDs in control box $2000 USD
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$8100 USD
Kelvin said they needed 2 months to generate income to refund us the money owed and to provide some equipment as compensation. After the 2 months were up it took repeated threats from us to finally illicit a response from Kelvin. He finally came back to us offering to repay $4000 of the $8100 we were owed in $1000 installments each month. When we pushed for the compensation equipment that had been offered , in the form of a single skin brite tank, a long exchange ensued with Kelvin dragging out the process and refusing to start the repayments until the brite tank was sorted. Finally now 17 months after placing our order there are no replies at all to my communications and no refunds or compensation has been received.
Another NZ brewer Renaissance has had similar experience with D.S.E. while Parrotdog who initially had a positive experience with them now deals with a company set up by an employee who left D.S.E. claiming the company was routinely mishandling customer orders.
We certainly made some mistakes through this process but the biggest one was in ever dealing with D.S.E.. Be warned.
Cheers
Kieran Haslett-Moore
North End Brewing Co
Last year we placed an order with D.S.E. for a 20bbl brewhouse and 5 FV’s and a range of bits of equipment including a mill, keg washer and a 100 kegs.
DSE promised a lot and our experience with them through the quoting period was very positive. We checked breweries who had bought from them , Parrotdog here in NZ (FV's and Brites) and Sanctum Brewing in California (brewhouse) and both of them were positive. A fellow brewer who was going to source a brewery from them flew to China and inspected the plant and liked what he saw.
After we placed our order in July and Aug 2014 and paid our deposit the woman we were dealing with, Joyce, disappeared and with no explanation I started dealing with another woman called Alice.
Alice was far less communicative. Our deadline approached and we were told the order wasn’t 'quite' ready. Some months later with lots of talk of it 'nearly' being ready we were told it was almost ready and it was time to pay the remainder of the invoice and we were also offered some good freight prices . We paid the invoice and freight. Months passed with nothing but the run around , start of this year with Chinese New Year approaching we enlisted the help of Brew-tek a brewery stainless engineering firm based in China but run by an American and a Kiwi. They inspected the plant and started acting on our behalf.
Chinese New Year came and went , promises were made and broken. Finally in April we sent Brew-Tek in again and found the plant ready to be sent apart from the burners that still had not been ordered in. We made the call to source burners in NZ and got it moving 7 months later than had been promised.
While our inspections revealed a decent standard of workmanship where things were visible here are some of the not so good things they revealed.
- On the first inspection it was admitted that one of our FVs had been used as a show model at a brewexpo in Beijing and had suffered scratches in transit
- The mash/lauter tun which we had paid $1000 USD extra to have a jacket fitted for temperature steps was built without the jacket
- The vapour condenser that we paid $1000 USD extra for was not built.
- the last inspection showed that the FVs that had originally been built for us, and paid for by us, were then sold to another customer. Part of our delays were as they raced to rebuild our FVs
- it was clear that the sales side of the company and the production side didn't communicate at all well. Also lots of their sales reps did under the table deals using the company factory to produce equipment without the company profiting from them.
-it is not yet clear whether our FVs have insulation in them or not.
- During one inspection the head of the sales team actively tried to jump ship and secure a job with Brew-Tek admitting that D.S.E. was a bad company.
Several months ago we were informed that Alice had been sacked and Ken the head of sales took over dealing with us. He promised that we would be compensated for the delay with free equipment, and some free freight.
Our order finally left, 7 months late, we thought this would be a time for celebration . However we received an email from them to our agents Brew-Tek claiming they had spent the money we had paid for freight and could no longer afford to ship the goods, they wanted Brew-Tek to lend them the money, a request that Brew-Tek naturally declined. When our containers landed they were put on hold while they checked that freight had been paid to the Chinese freight forwarder. Mercifully it had, but that took about 5 years off my life.
Now that the plant has arrived we have found some other issues that are continuing to cause us delays and cost us money. One of the excuses offered for the delay was that D.S.E. were going to great lengths to insure that they were supplying the correct electrical components , we have since discovered that the mill and rake motors have both been set up for American 3 phase rather than NZ power. We also found that instead of the 15sm heat exchanger that we ordered and paid for we were supplied a 6sm one. The control box has also proved to be missing many of the VFD’s required to drive the brewery.
We also found that the supports under the false bottom of the MLT were constructed of low grad stainless steel which proceeded to rust and had to be replaced.
We received an email from Kelvin the CEO of the company claiming they have lost money on a deal with an American brewery and couldn’t currently repay the money they owed us back which currently is as follows:
MLT Jacket $1000 USD
Burners $3100 USD
Condenser $1000 USD
Refund for wrong heat exchanger $1000 USD
Refund for lack of VFDs in control box $2000 USD
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
$8100 USD
Kelvin said they needed 2 months to generate income to refund us the money owed and to provide some equipment as compensation. After the 2 months were up it took repeated threats from us to finally illicit a response from Kelvin. He finally came back to us offering to repay $4000 of the $8100 we were owed in $1000 installments each month. When we pushed for the compensation equipment that had been offered , in the form of a single skin brite tank, a long exchange ensued with Kelvin dragging out the process and refusing to start the repayments until the brite tank was sorted. Finally now 17 months after placing our order there are no replies at all to my communications and no refunds or compensation has been received.
Another NZ brewer Renaissance has had similar experience with D.S.E. while Parrotdog who initially had a positive experience with them now deals with a company set up by an employee who left D.S.E. claiming the company was routinely mishandling customer orders.
We certainly made some mistakes through this process but the biggest one was in ever dealing with D.S.E.. Be warned.
Cheers
Kieran Haslett-Moore
North End Brewing Co
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