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DecoctionMash
11-17-2016, 03:33 PM
I'm in the process of having a decoction capable 10bbl brewhouse fabricated(Chinese). They recommended a standard centrifugal, but my experience tells me there is no way a centrifugal is going to transfer the full mash from mashtun to lauter/BK.
I've started looking into flexible impeller pumps, but I haven't come across one that's rated for high temps. I am accounting for the decoction temp more than anything +-205*f. I really like the compact design and pricetag, but so far 3 suppliers have recommended against using one for mash.
I've considered positive displacement (screw pumps), my fabricator has access to them, it just seems like a lot more pump than what I need.
Rotary lobe pumps are too expensive.
I really like helicolidal impeller pumps, but I havent come across a pricetag on one yet.

What is the standard issue decoction pump type? Where are brewers sourcing them? Trying to keep this project under (ideally well under) 3k.

grnis
11-18-2016, 07:15 AM
We use a centrifual pump to transfer our mash from the mash kettle to the lauter tun.
If it is properly sized and you run it at low enough speed there should be very few problems.

A positive displacement pump would be better, but that adds more complexity.

Flexible impeller pumps tends to have their pump wheels broken pretty fast when pumping mash.

BrewinLou
11-18-2016, 01:20 PM
Centrifugal can have many different style impellers, I sure some work great, pancake impellers would not. I would think a stainless high heat diaphragm pump would be a really good choice but I have never used one for this purpose, if sized correctly. Joel

DecoctionMash
11-18-2016, 06:41 PM
I really want one of these, but haven't been able to source one yet.

http://www.inoxpa.com/products/product/helicoidal-impeller-pump-rv

Our fabricator has access to positive displacement pumps (screw pump) I will likely breakdown and use one. Are they difficult to prime? My fabricator warns they are difficult to start.

The centrifugals supplied by our fabricator are 'pancake' impellers, they look to be of decent grade, but practically blenders when it comes to sending grain through them, but of a higher grade than my previous brewhouse for sure.
I'm getting 2" drains in all my kettles, maybe I just underestimate quality centrifugals in general, my previous ones (http://www.gwkent.com/thomsen-6-sanitary-centrifugal-pump-with-vfd.html) left much to be desired.

lhall
11-21-2016, 08:29 AM
We transfer mash with centrifugal pumps, like an Ampco, that have an open curved impeller, with no problems. The seals don't last a long time, but that is the only problem. I think if we had a water flush on the seal it would probably last longer.

TGTimm
11-21-2016, 02:03 PM
To echo what Linus wrote, a washed seal is essential for mash or wort transfer. Our C114 went from a seal failure cycle of months to one of years by simply adding a cold-water wash to the external seal.

DecoctionMash
11-22-2016, 10:32 PM
We transfer mash with centrifugal pumps, like an Ampco, that have an open curved impeller, with no problems. The seals don't last a long time, but that is the only problem. I think if we had a water flush on the seal it would probably last longer.

Can you elaborate or share links with more info? Definitely something I'd like to look into. I often find I over engineer when doing generic google searches.

Jedi
11-23-2016, 01:20 AM
I am curious too.

Ampco Pumps 3
11-23-2016, 08:01 AM
Can you elaborate or share links with more info? Definitely something I'd like to look into. I often find I over engineer when doing generic google searches.

Hello Guys,

we size full-strength mash pumps often. We work with brewhouse manufacturers for this type of application when necessary. This is normally for two-vessel systems that mash-mix and transfer to the other vessel or BIG operations that have a dedicated mash mixer.

the trick here is that you're going to be operating at a high percent solids, but the carrying fluid is still water and the specific gravity and effective viscosity increase, but it can be planned for and a pump sized appropriately. I normally recommend our C series AC+ pumps for this application and L series for bigger customers.

if you size the pump for wort or water, you'll be in trouble, but if you plan ahead and consult with us or whomever, you'll be fine. Feel free to call.

Marcus (414) 643-1852

CPESystems
11-23-2016, 09:06 AM
The simple "F" seal option on a "C" series pump should do the trick.

http://www.cpesystems.com/collections/pumps-and-motors/products/topline-tf-c114md-pump-with-2-hp-tefc-motor?variant=985689364