Real ale in Cornies

[jjs]

I have an abundance of Cornelius kegs and woud like to do real ale in them. Seems simple enough. Add beer to keg, prime it (8 oz corn sgar?) let it prime, vent out pressure after 5 to 6 days from the prv, and serve through with the prv open. I already have a beer engine. Thoughts on this? (Hi Scott)

Thanks JS

[JoeBrews]

That's basically what we do. Works great.

Cheers,
Joe

[Gregg]

I would suggest avoiding the addition of fermentables for secondary fermentation. Transfer from fermenter to racking tank when beer has 1 - 2 deg. P residual; cool and allow to mature in racking tank for a few days, then rack off into cask and add finings; distribute, tap, allow to settle and serve.

Just a summary of course; plenty of other options (e.g. finings adjunct at transfer stage, dry hopping) and alternatives; plenty more advice available.

Gregg

[scott isham]

Remember to cut an inch or so off the out tube to leave the yeast behind. I'm sure you have something on your person to help you measure an inch.

[jjs]

Would centimeters be OK? Your right. I would have to dedicate several Cornies for real ale. But what if I just racked finished beer into the Corny? Doesn't primming and conditioning it in the keg dramatically changed the beer? I don't want to simply serve a flatter version of a tap beeer do I?

[Buckley]

Don't forget about the possibilities of dry hopping, extract additions and spicing available in this corny application. Yeah they are your house beers but you can dress them up like beer role playing.

[Jephro]

you can dress them up like beer role playing.

Sounds kinda kinky

When i "cask condition" in firkins i just add some (a pithcer or two) high krausen wort to the beer before i seal it up. Not entirely different from adding priming sugar i guess, but a more natural way of achieving the same goal.

I don't want to simply serve a flatter version of a tap beeer do I?

Correct me if i'm wrong, but the beer engine adds o2 to the beer which in and of itself gives the "ale" a different profile than a gently poured force carbed beer from a standard tap.

[BrewinLou]

"and serve through with the prv open" Would that physically work, sure. As long as that keg does not sit around for days. The beer engine we use has a regulator set at 2.5 - 5 psi that goes in the top spile hole just to put a blacket of co2 on the beer in the cask. You could very easily put very low pressure on the corny keg to keep oxygen from entering the keg. But if your customers can knock a 5er out in a few hours I would not worry about it.

[Gregg]

Looks like your are talking about "real ale" as a sideline rather than your primary beer, so a simple approach is probably fine, as consistency in the end result will not be critical. However, I would still go for taking beer from your fermenter with a little residual, rather than direct priming for secondary fermentation; from my course notes : "Wort and Krausening : Too much needs to be added and there is often a problem with adding wort. You are adding more dextrins, and more proteins from the wort to already fermented beer. The krausening step in lager maturation is followed by a long period of ageing and chill stabilisation, whereas with ales the ageing process is shorter and the inevitable hazes can be a problem."

For those who have shared their experience : what do you do to settle the yeast?

Gregg

[jjs]

I think it depends on the yeast Gregg. When I was using firkins, I would use prepared isinglass. About 1 TBS in beer then into the firkin. Worked great. Nice and bright but I was also using WL #002 yeast that flocks so hard you can hear it.

[Gregg]

JJS : yup - finings need to be added after any secondary fermentation. Again, for a regular mainstream product, it is important to do cell counts to ensure good secondary/maturation, and sediment tests to ensure you have the correct proportion of finings.

Gregg

[Woolsocks]

"and serve through with the prv open" Would that physically work, sure. As long as that keg does not sit around for days. The beer engine we use has a regulator set at 2.5 - 5 psi that goes in the top spile hole just to put a blacket of co2 on the beer in the cask. You could very easily put very low pressure on the corny keg to keep oxygen from entering the keg. But if your customers can knock a 5er out in a few hours I would not worry about it.

I was thinking that as well. In the UK, some people like the changes that occur in a firkin as it is served over a few days -- air and critters enter the cask and complexify it -- the same brand tastes different depending on the "terroir" of the pub where it's consumed and the amount of time its been tapped. Of course, I received a pint of vinegar at a London pub once..... acetobacter love air!

A day or two like you're saying is OK, but if longer than that (I have casks that take weeks to sell) you can use the low pressure regulator or you can buy a "cask breather" which is essentially a regulator fixed at 0 PSI. They sell them at UKBrewing.com

[Woolsocks]

SiO2 (biofine)

I recently tried biofine in my casks. 50mL to a 40L cask. Clearest casks I've had, and no work to add. Just measure and dump it in! No mixers, no hydration, nothing. Anyone know why it works so well? Kerry says it's got isinglass and Silicon Dioxide. What does the SiO2 do?

[brewbonghm]

This is one of the simplest ways to prepare beer, do not over complicate it.
A couple of tips:
Always use beer that has undergone complete fermentation.
Add any primings, finings, and flavor enhancers simultaneously.
Take beer to be used and add it to primed casks, from the sample port, as this is likely to be less fowled by yeast etc.
Store casks in close proximity to your kettle for a few days to insure secondary fermentation.
When you bung-up, or install the flip lid, add 1# pressure so you have an adequate seal.
Only serve it on Fridays, when you know it will go, if there is some left on Saturday let people know how lucky they are that you tapped a fifth cask late last night.
If you still have some left at the close of biz on Sat, start serving it in Imperial pint glasses.

[Woolsocks]

Disadvantage to cornies?

We are looking to expand our real ale service. After reading this thread, I think cornies are the way to go vs. firkins. They're cheaper, easier to clean (anyone tried to get a hop bag or wood chips out of a firkin ) and fill, and save space. I've been using the Cask Widge in firkins and love it, but I think I could even incorporate it into cornies.

Unless someone has a plug for firkins (besides "authenticity") I think our expansion will use modified cornies.