Fv from Wenzhou Shuangding any good?

[jat147]

Hi Brew friends,
I'm new around here and only found the site after being recommended by a fellow user at Homebrewtalk who thought my commercial question would be better suited here?
So, sorry to jump in with a question right away, pardon my manners please? But I'm in the process of finishing off fitting out my nano brewery in my garage and need an FV and conditioning tank to be able to brew lengths of 250-300L (66 to 80 galls). I've been talking to lots of plants in China (the UK prices are way too much) and have found what looks just right for me at Wenzhou Shuangding machinery Co. I was wondering if anyone had bought anything from them, and how was the quality when it turned up? Here is a pdf of the FV, I'd be grateful if anyone can see anything obviously wrong that I'm missing?
Many thanks in advance, James.
http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/v...page0001-1.jpg

[dick murton]

Have you tried Johnson Brewing Design, near Bury? I went to see them last Thursday - not perfect, but not bad at all, i.e. not up to the flawless German stuff, but I think it will work well. Certainly one of my small brewery consultant friends uses them a fair bit and has no problem. The general finish is pretty good. A bit of you pay for what you get, but if you tell him what you want, then he will build it for you.

Don't let him fit ball valves though, which we later saw on a micro - most are not hygienic (and plug valves definitely not. Get small butterfly valves fitted instead.

01204 88 7754 info@johnsonbrewing.co.uk

[dick murton]

I also meant to say that you really cannot tell what the quality of the steel and the welding is like simply looking at a drawing. It's a long way to send stuff back if it preves necessary.

And you would need to watch that the valves, seals etc are compatible with what you can get easily in the UK.

And what is the upstand for ?

[jat147]

Thanks Dick, I haven't seen them before but will get in touch and see what they can do. So far I've avoided consultants as I felt they are into providing full solutions, and I've built everything myself so far - time rich, cash poor is the saying I think?
Thanks for the tip about ball valves though.

[jat147]

Yeah its the quality of the welds that worries me, well after the thing not ever turning up that is?
Thats why I've rejected a cheaper one that didn't have a manway on the front - I guessed that if it arrives with poor welds at least we could get inside and fix it?
The coolant in/out is 3/4" which should be easy enough to mate - but the other taps are 32mm which isn't obviously compatible
Sorry , what do you mean by upstand?

[dick murton]

There is a pipe comining into the cone about half way up, which runs into the middle of the tank, pointing upwards

[dick murton]

Ah, the voice of experience of using small vessels. Sounds good to me, though top manway doors are normally more expensive to fit than side ones unless you have a simple cone or flat top rather than a spun dish.

And you can put the sprayball (if using one) in throught the door - as a fitment on the door, so the door is shut during CIP.

[jat147]

Thanks again for the input.
I'd like to save a bit on a single skin tank or even 2, but I doubt I've got the expertise to fit a cooling jacket to it - is that the kind of thing you could get retro fitted, and still come in under the cost of a three skin?
I've seen people who've used copper pipes wrapped around an FV, but the price of copper....
It just seemed much more straightforward to get a beer cooler, and attach it to the FV? Am I missing something simple?

[dick murton]

Fitting cooling jackets is best done at the initial construction stage. Don't even think about retro fitting jackets.

As for cooling coils - if you are going fo a new vessel, bust the bamk and get properly designed and fitted jackets. Internal cooling coils are a nightmare to clean.

And lots of people use beer coolers - it is a matter of sizing. There have been lots of discussions here about sizing, with people who appear to be genuinely qualifed to make the sort of calculations required.

If you want to go really "upmarket" then spend a little extra cash on a simple timer to allow you to put cooling on at a predicted time of day or night, and even more "upmarket", link it to a temperature sensor so you can allow the system to control to a set point, and then you could combine the two for even more dosh.

Have fun

[dick murton]

Ah sorry. Misunderstood

Though I think for a 3 hl vessel, it really won't be worth fitting more than a single jacket. And being so small, I would also prefer to see it insulated by the supplier - to get a better finish as much as anything. I know from experience how even 250 hl uninsulated vessels are seriously susceptible to changes in outside temperatures, let alone ones this size.

[KaskaskiaBrew]

Hey jat,

I've done both ways so it basically comes down to cost and appearance. A fully jacketed fermenter with the glycol ports finished does look great and functions well but obviously the cost is higher. The downside to just wrapping it with some refrigeration (soft) copper and then insulating around it is that it isn't quite as efficient and it clearly doesn't have the sparkle factor.

I'm sure there are a bunch of different ways to do this, but here is how I did it on my pilot 1bbl fermenters. Just get about 100 feet of refrigeration copper and wrap it as tight as you can around the tank (a friend really comes in handy for this). Then I softly tapped it down with a hammer until it was touching the fermenter all the way around. I'm not sure if they make more squared copper tubing but if they do, it would be way better than the circular kind. After it's pressed down, I used painters tape to basically wrap the entire fermenter and cooling coils to help keep them from sliding off. You can use a more strong tape like duct tape but I was worried that if I ever wanted to take the copper off, I'd be scraping the tape residue off for months. Then just insulate the tank with shiny type of insulation that you can get at home improvement stores. I've seen other people create more of a manifold and I'm sure that works just as well if not better.

Personally, if I had to do it again, I would have just gone with the jacketed fermenters right away. It'll save you a hassle and plus it looks much nicer .

These drawings look almost identical to some drawings I was given by a supposedly different supplier. I'm currently dealing with the quality issues which were pretty severe so hopefully you don't get the same type of problems. One thing that irritated me was that the thermometer port was threaded. There is an o-ring that separates the threads from the beer but it's still something I would have rather changed. If possible, just have them make every one of the fittings tri-clamp and you'll be much happier.

Cheers

[jat147]

Thanks Jared for the tips, thats very useful. A single skin is around $1100 rather than the $1800 for a 3 skin - sounds like a load of work to take on in order to save a few hundred? I still remember the ordeal that I went thru trying to make an immersion chiller using copper a few years ago - what a mess that ended up

[Mavit]

Wenzhau Shuangding Machinery….Comments?

Hello,

I'm considering buying some equipment from "Wenzhau Shuangding Machinery", a company in China. Does any one have any experience with this company???

Thanks in advance,

Mavit

[fvbrew]

If they can't give you a good list of references, then why even bother with them?

[jat147]

Hi Mavit, What are you thinking of buying from them?
I've contacted one new brewery in Colorado who are happy with the 8 tanks they've bought from the plant, but there haven't been any sold to my side of the Atlantic - the plant seems to have been formed last year only?