More Malt

[jsvoboda]

Hello I am having an ongoing "problem" with my beers. Its seems that no matter what I do I can not achieve the degree of maltyness that I want in certain beers. I think I have covered all the bases. I have Been:
a. Mashing at high temps 155-157
b. trying to make mash times as short as possible 40 min.
c. Using a malt friendly yeast WL002
d. Aromatic, carapils caramel pilsner malts etc. Crisp, Briess and Rahr base
e. Mashing out at 170 degrees for 10 min.
f. Sparging at 168 ( my mash temp will frequently drop to well below the original mash temp but comes back in the end) This is why I mash out.
g. Final gravities are normally 1008 -1012 depending on the beer.

So my conclusion is that I must be over pitching. I know that I use far more yeast than I need, but alas I do not have nor will I be able to purchase equipment that will allow me to determine cell counts.

So I guess I need to go back to the stand by 1 - 1.25L per barrel.

My question is: What effect does over pitching have on the final beer? I can see how it would eat up everything but my sugar spectrum should be loaded with dextrine and other non-fermentables. I just made a 1.080 barley wine and It's so clean I should sell it as something cobra or name it after a gun. No malt at all. Just EtOH it's pleasant but no body. Any ideas?

Thanks JS

[kugeman]

From what you've posted as your finish gravities, it looks like you're getting a pretty high degree of attenuation. This would definitely lead to a drier and less "malty" tasting beer. Maybe this has been mentioned in the past, but are you confident that your mash tun thermometer is accurate? If it is reading high that would definitely explain your problem. Also, at what temps are your fermenting your beers?

[jsvoboda]

68 in general. I've checked te temp before and its close. When I cip the tun I make sure that the probe is two inches below the water level. I then run it through the HE and it's reading is the same as the mash tun probe. So I'm fairly sure it's close.

[jsvoboda]

Post thaught. How did we end up working on labor day?

[liammckenna]

What about your water profile and water treatment regime? You may want to consider playing with the profile especially if your water is naturally very hard. You might try decreasing your calcium sulphate addition and increasing your calcium chloride usage. Just a thought.

Pax.

Liam

[jsvoboda]

I rarely use gypsum. only in IPA. CaCl I use in most litter color beers. How do the negative ions work differently? My water is softned but is naturallu hard

[jason.koehler]

I think the easy way out would be to add some dextrin malt, though it would cost a little more, you wouldn't have to change anything else you're doing really...

[BigWilley]

Malt

For real distinct toastiness try Wyerman Melanoidan its like a super Munich. A 55lb sack in 15 Bbls will give you a lot of flavor. Gambrinus Honey Malt also works well for a sweeter more mellow malty flavor, Wyerman Caramunich will give you good caramel sweetness. The Melanoidan is very strong, give it a try.

[BMOOR]

I can ditto BigWilley. We use Gamb. Honey malt in a lot of beers. WE use Weyer C-Munich II in two house beers for color and flavor. I used Melanoidin for the first time in our Oktoberfest. 110# in 15 bbl. Maybe too much?? But those are all good. Of course if you are making a lighter beer this doesn't help. Although Honey malt is around 19 L I think. Can be used in adark gold to light amber ale.

Let us know your results after all these tips. It sounded like you were doing everything imaginable to get less attenuation. I don't know if over pitching is your problem though??

[beertje46]

JS,
What is your base malt?

[dfougeron]

Bite the Bullet

Are you sure that there is no way to justify spending about $100 to do yeast counts? You can occasionally find hemacytometers on e-bay for $60 or so, and a cheap little microscope from wal-mart (although not ideal) will do in a pinch. I have made some beers in the past that have been accidentally over-pitched and they were notably less malty than I wanted them to be. How fast do your beers ferment and what is your lag time? Also how much O2 are you aerating with?

Cheers!
Dave