Pump Seal Woes

[fluxgame]

Having some issues with our TopLine C114 pump that we use for CIP and knockout:

On our last brew day the pump wasn’t putting out the flow it usually does and knockout went stupidly long (2+ hours, 5bbl brewhouse). Towards the end of knockout the pump seal started leaking badly. We tore the pump down afterward, nothing looked amiss, but we replaced the seals and checked the drive collar to be safe. We ran a hot water test through our knockout loop and everything seemed fine, good flow rate and no leaks. Tank CIP went without a hitch. Brewed again yesterday and again, low flow and towards the end the seal started leaking. Interestingly, as I was CIPing the kettle, the leak slowly went away.

Any suggestions for things to check/try?

[Starcat]

You need to check original setup on the pump. These pumps are very similar to Waukesha C-114 and set up is very much similar to my knowledge. The drive collar should not have to be disturbed for seal replacements typically and you should be able to re-seal in 10 minutes or less. You are far better off with old style type D seal running wet wash.
Stock impellers can be too large for " kettle " duty depending on the exact configuration you are running on all your outboard gear at 3450 RPM. CPE systems can assist with those pumps often times.

[TGTimm]

CPE has an excellent tutorial on setting the seal up for these.

The thing I'd point out is that you need a washed seal for wort and, to a lesser degree, CIP. Wort in the seal will ruin it rapidly. We bought a new C114 a few years back for wort transfer. The seal lasted a few weeks. I added a crude rinser--just a small piece of copper pipe bent to direct a flow of cold water over the exposed seal--and have not had to replace the seal in the several years since.

[fluxgame]

Thanks for the replies. I'm just really confused at this situation as I've been using this pump for 2 years without issues and then had 2 seal failures within a week. I'll set up a seal washer and talk to CPE about my configuration. Cheers!

[Starcat]

Flux, no idea your situation, but a major lot of operator error can figure into things in other operations. Its critical that all personnel operating pumps and all Mechanical systems for that matter are on the same page. A Mechanic will always have to ask and look at anything that might have changed when nothing seems obvious. We are in a time where there are a lot of people operating machinery that not only have no common sense, but also have no idea how anything really operates.
Pumps can be quite challenging at times.

[TGTimm]

Warren has a point there. Is there any possibility someone has been running the pump dry? That'll kill seals in no time flat.

[Starcat]

Flux, be sure your setup has not " drifted." The drive collar needs to be set first to the correct book tolerance before the stub shaft is locked down.
I usually mark a line behind the drive collar in black for reference. On Waukesha, the impeller clearance to the backplate is set to .060 with seal tension " on " to lockdown the stub shaft. I have seen both good and useless videos on how to do this. I do not care for NON Oem seal kits. They always have inferior seal tension springs. The factory kits always have the nice bellows type spring for the mechanical seal. Another thing I found especially on Lauter duty is that the operators will invariably dead head the pump, which is not supposed to be done with that style impeller and will force grain husk between the seal and backplate. The wetwash is a must to help with this problem. The factory wet wash stems are pricey, but they screw right into the pump housing and the height is adjustable with compression nut. Timm is correct they are a must on this kind of old style seal arrangement. The service life compared to without them on Brewhouse pumps is large. The new internal seal pumps that are being offered now are a hundred times better. They are spec for any new brewhouse that I would be a part of. We do not run wetwash on CIP cart pumps, and on those its not a problem. Sometimes its often the case that when we need time to really analyze a problem, the spectre of " Production CANNOT STOP " is looming large. This is why redundancy is sometimes so critical, but not always possible depending on the system and the cost involved.

[CPESystems]

I notice in the original post by FLUXGAME that the leak happened after a very long knock out What happens is that slowly sugars and trub from the wort start to build up on the seal surface as you are pumping. If the knock out is quick enough it won't start to leak and then when you CIP the seal is cleaned, but if it is a longer than usual knock out then the build up hits the critical point and the seal starts to leak. Timm has a very good point about really needing a flush seal for this kind of application, but this is not always possible or practical, especially if you have a portable pump. You could set up a temporary water flush with a hose for these occasional long knock outs or even a good strong blast of water on the seal with the washdown hose when it starts to leak will probably clean it enough to stop it for the rest of the knock out.