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Thread: Quick-Carb Query

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    4

    Quick-Carb Query

    Howdy folks,

    long-time reader, first time-poster.

    I am used to the old method of force carbonating wherein you set your regulator to the appropriate PSI per temp for around 5-7 days to achieve the volumes of CO2 you are shooting for (i.e. 10 PSI at 34F for 5-7 days to achieve ~2.6 vol CO2).

    Recently, in passing, I heard from a brewing peer that that is the inefficient way to do it. He said he sets his regulator to ~20-30PSI at 34F for 6 hours, and his beer is carbed and ready.

    I don't want to attempt this without knowing the details a bit more, so I am looking for corroboration and further explanation.

    Any wise words would be appreciated.

    Rob

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Edinburgh, Scotland
    Posts
    69
    Hey Rob,

    It sounds like that would work, but you would need to make sure that the vessel you are using can handle the pressure. Also, you would need to do some test to figure out how long it takes at what pressure and temp, because you would have to depressurize to ca. 10 PSI as soon as you hit the carbonation you want. We are doing that to some extent now, but only with 15-17 PSI on the CCT (max pressure issue). Also try using colder temperatures to speed it up.

    Hope this helps!


    Roger Greene

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    699
    Tank pressure rating, at least in the USA would be the problem. There is also the variable of how much head space will there be in the tank.
    Joel Halbleib
    CBO "Chief Brewing Officer" / Zymurgist
    Bluegrass Brewing Co
    636 East Main St
    Louisville, KY
    www.bluegrassbrewing.com

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    St.Louis->Tacoma
    Posts
    633
    I Carb my beer up in about 20-30 minutes (have used on batches 7-15BBL's). I run 25-30 PSI via the stone and vent the tank just a bit to hold at a steady 15 PSI. It is easy to over-carb beers this way if you're not careful, its one of those things you just get a feel for with experience. Not very scientific or exact, but it has worked well for me for years, great carb, great lacing in glass etc.
    (NOTE- we do not bottle beer) If packaging I would always Zahm the beer before it was packaged.

    I recently saw in another thread where someone said it is not ever necessary to vent while carbonating. While this may be technically true, again the venting method has worked well for me and i usually don't have the luxury of waiting days (or even hours in some cases) for a beer to carb up.

    Happy Brewing
    Last edited by Jephro; 08-23-2010 at 10:59 AM.
    Jeff Byrne

    12 year pro craft brewer *NOW available for hire...
    Auburn, Wa - for now

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    4
    Thanks for the replies. Very helpful indeed. Jephro, sounds like you are doing exactly what I am talking about, so I think this can work for me.

    Rob Landerman
    Ranger Creek Brewing and Distilling
    San Antonio, TX

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    pembine, wi USA
    Posts
    140
    holding beer at 30 -40 lbs for 6 hours will not carbonate it. we are using cornie's 6 at a time, and it takes 3 days at 30# at 30 degrees. I call it the rule of 3's. If you shake the keg or roll it ont the ground it will carbonate ina few minutes - 10 or so. I would like to try connecting teh gas to the liquid line and venting slowly out the gas side soem time just for the hell of it.
    Tim Eichinger
    Visit our website blackhuskybrewing.com

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    171
    @tim - They're talking about carbing using a stone, not by pressurizing the head space above the liquid, which of course takes longer.

    Andrew
    Parish Brewing Co.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    7

    Force Carbing in Kegs

    Our procedure currently is to rack into 1/6bbls or 50L kegs uncarbonated, transfer about 16oz of beer to an overflow keg (in order to create some headspace), hookup gas to sankey valve (gas in) set the regulator at 40 psi for 24-28 hours at a temp of 34deg. Once the kegs are at the desired carbonation transfer beer from overflow keg back to main kegs. So far this has worked great and has produced very consistent results.
    Evan Klein
    Barrier Brewing Co.
    Owner/Head Brewer
    3595 Lawson Blvd., Unit E
    Oceanside, NY 11572
    (516) 316-4429
    www.barrierbrewing.com

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Miami, Fl
    Posts
    62
    we have the regulator for our stones set about about 35-40 pounds, tank pressure at 10 psi, tank set at 36-38F, and on average we carbonate a 14 bbl batch in about 6 to 12 hours. We usually bleed the tank back down to 10 psi once it gets up to about 15 psi. We repeat this process until it's done, which is almost always within 12 hours, unless the stone is slow or clogged.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    McCall, Idaho
    Posts
    337
    We set our stone regulator at 17 to 18 psi. It takes a few adjustments to get the right pressure in the first half hour or so. We are not venting. Leave overnight. Tank pressure ends up at about 15 to 17 psi. Tanks are 7bbl single wall Grundy's in our cooler which is set at 35 degreess F. We currently do not have a Zahm $.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Poway, CA, USA
    Posts
    58
    We are using a carbonation stone and pumping in C02 @ 40 psi. Venting out from the top of the tank, maintaning 15 psi on the tank gauge. I can carbonate a 200 BBL batch of beer post filtration in about 6-8 hours. I can carb our smaller 80 BBL batches in roughly 2-4 hours depending on the beer and desired carbonation level.

    James Murray
    Lead Brewer
    Ballast Point Brewing & Spirits
    San Diego, CA

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Charlottesville, VA
    Posts
    19
    James,

    Any problems with protein buildup in the bbt's?


    Trey

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Florence, Alabama
    Posts
    313
    Quote Originally Posted by Jephro
    I Carb my beer up in about 20-30 minutes (have used on batches 7-15BBL's). I run 25-30 PSI via the stone and vent the tank just a bit to hold at a steady 15 PSI. It is easy to over-carb beers this way if you're not careful, its one of those things you just get a feel for with experience. Not very scientific or exact, but it has worked well for me for years, great carb, great lacing in glass etc.
    (NOTE- we do not bottle beer) If packaging I would always Zahm the beer before it was packaged.

    I recently saw in another thread where someone said it is not ever necessary to vent while carbonating. While this may be technically true, again the venting method has worked well for me and i usually don't have the luxury of waiting days (or even hours in some cases) for a beer to carb up.

    Happy Brewing
    I have used this method in a couple places... was doing 20bbl tanks in 45 minutes or so, 90bbl in maybe a couple hours (if memory serves). Always did Zahm before calling beer "good to go" whether for packaging or serving tanks. I wouldn't do this method without venting tank though, relaxed concentration + faulty emergency relief can equal bad things happening.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Palau
    Posts
    1,566
    Not to give anyone a hard time--I know that venting is quite common in microbreweries. But I'm one who advocates strongly against venting. It is unnecessary, wasteful, and quite likely deleterious to your beer. Unnecessary, because there's a way to carbonate accurately without venting--even in a 1 bar BBT. Wasteful because you're using more (greenhouse) gas than you need to. And deleterious because you run the risk of foaming your beer, overcarbonating, and you use your beer as a conduit for CO2 escape. What's the point again? Although there are many ways to make great beer (venting obviously included), I just don't get the idea behind venting. Spund your fermenter to get 13 psi post-fermentation, crash cool, dump yeast, transfer slow and gentle under pressure, carbonate using a clean stone and a rotameter to properly gauge your flow rate, carbonate cold and slow, and there will be no other issues. I see our beers go into the 10 hl BBT at about 9-10 psi after crashing to 3C. It's not saturated with CO2 any longer at that point. I start the carbonation at about 3SCFH, and keep it in that ballpark. After an hour or two of constant pressure, the pressure starts slowly increasing as I saturate at that pressure. When my pressure gets to 12.5-13 psi, I'm done. During the carbonation, the beer slowly circulates. Works in a matter of 4-6 hours. If someone can tell me why this doesn't work for them, I'll learn something. There's always something to learn. Happy carbonating!
    Phillip Kelm--Palau Brewing Company Manager--
    Worldwide Brewery Installations
    www.GitcheGumeeBreweryServices.com

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