Grain Displacement

[goodnaturebrew]

Just got a new 7bbl system and it has no flow meter that links into the grist hydrator so I am playing a guessing game with liqour to grain ratio. I am using a measure stick for water volume, but I know that the grain takes up volume which is of course throwing off the actual ratio. Is there a quick formula that can help figure out how much volume (gallons) the grain is taking up? Any help appreciated. Thanks everyone!

[yap]

I think you'll find that's a tough one. Depending on how you crush the grain, the milled grain volume will vary slightly. Also, while you are doughing in the grain begins to absorb water so that will make the volume variable until all the grain is in and has become saturated. MAYBE if you knew what the level in the vessel was after the right ratio of grain and water was added you could use that as a benchmark and initially shoot for below that. Once everything is in and saturated then maybe add a little more water to get back to your "mark".

Either way I think you will have a lot of variation. It's probably best to look into a flowmeter.....

[goodnaturebrew]

Thanks Scott

Thanks for the ideas! I have been thinking its just the thing to do is get a flow meter. Any good suggestions on where to get one or what brands are best. It would be going into 1.5" TC on both ends. I know mcmaster Carr has them, but not sure how good they are?

[samhuff]

are you wanting to calculate the amount of water the grain is absorbing compared to the water needed for your mash?

That would really depend on the grain and how it was malted. You could run some empirical tests on a small sample to see at what point the grain stopped absorbing water and then compare the wet weight to the known dry weight and you have your amount. You would need to make sure to use hot liquor though as the absorption rate would be different with cold or even warm tap water.

Another experiment you could perform is to take a 5 gallon bucket and fill it with 4 gallons of hot liquor, you could measure this with whatever you have on hand that you consider reliable. Add 1 lb equivalent of your grain bill (factor down), let it sit and absorb for about 20 minutes. This is more than enough time to let the grain fully absorb water. After that start emptying out the bucket with the same device you filled it with so you have an accurate reading on what you are taking out. The difference is what the grain has absorbed.

[dereknobleluke]

dude.

Kobold instruments. 412-788-2830

Spring loaded flow meter with 1" NPT connections.

Then buy two 1" NPT thread by Tri/Clamp connections (St. Pats, GW KENT etc...).

Then cut your current pipe into your hydrator, weld on new tri clamp ferrule, insert flow meter.

give beer to welder (welding the ferrule shouldn't take welder more than 25 minutes. I am self taught and can walk a full pen sanitarty bead with prep work in 20 minutes...)

Whole project will cost less than $125 and last 10 years. If you are of the "new school" of brewers that would say something like "well we didn't budget for that. Or that's too expensive" etc for a 7 bbl system, then you are in for a long hard road over the next few years....

I installed this same system on my 30 bbl system (I too, didn't have a flow meter) and it has already paid for itself in water usage alone....

Cheers

[goodnaturebrew]

Thanks!!

I learned a long time ago that budgets are just a guideline for what's to come! If you budget $4000 plan on spending $6000 after all is said and done! Our rule of thumb have a good nest egg available for such cost! That being said thanks for the budget flow meter info! I love the helpful people in this industry, thanks all!

dude.

Kobold instruments. 412-788-2830

Spring loaded flow meter with 1" NPT connections.

Then buy two 1" NPT thread by Tri/Clamp connections (St. Pats, GW KENT etc...).

Then cut your current pipe into your hydrator, weld on new tri clamp ferrule, insert flow meter.

give beer to welder (welding the ferrule shouldn't take welder more than 25 minutes. I am self taught and can walk a full pen sanitarty bead with prep work in 20 minutes...)

Whole project will cost less than $125 and last 10 years. If you are of the "new school" of brewers that would say something like "well we didn't budget for that. Or that's too expensive" etc for a 7 bbl system, then you are in for a long hard road over the next few years....

I installed this same system on my 30 bbl system (I too, didn't have a flow meter) and it has already paid for itself in water usage alone....

Cheers

[Horsepoorx2]

Grist hydrator

Just got a new 7bbl system and it has no flow meter that links into the grist hydrator so I am playing a guessing game with liqour to grain ratio. I am using a measure stick for water volume, but I know that the grain takes up volume which is of course throwing off the actual ratio. Is there a quick formula that can help figure out how much volume (gallons) the grain is taking up? Any help appreciated. Thanks everyone!

I also have a seven barrel system to which I want to add a hydrator. Can you tell me where you purchased yours?

Cheers,

J

[goodnaturebrew]

Hydrator

I also have a seven barrel system to which I want to add a hydrator. Can you tell me where you purchased yours?

Cheers,

J

Hey There,

We were looking to add a flow meter not a hydrator. The hydrator was pre-installed. Not sure where you could get one, but you could have a welder fabricate one?

[monkeybrewer]

other method with out flow meter

just measure the volume of liquid out of your hot liquor tank or kettle that goes into the mash tun. that number with your grain bill should give you your grist to liquor ratio. You do need a measured "stick" in the kettle or on the outside of your hot liquor tank with a sight tube.
Cheers

[dereknobleluke]

I also have a seven barrel system to which I want to add a hydrator. Can you tell me where you purchased yours?

Cheers,

J

dude.

Kobold instruments. 412-788-2830

Spring loaded flow meter with 1" NPT connections.

[dereknobleluke]

NOT AT ALL TRUE!!!

GPI sells a stainless steel encased totalizer/flowmeter in 1.5". It is $931.

Any one that some how got into the brewing industry can mash in "normally" and record the time it take for all the grain to come through the auger. When the mash is full, brewer either take a reading off their sight glass or somehow mark on the tank this mash liquid volume.

After the brew, brewer
1) climbs inside their mash tun and find the diameter of the inside and height to determine volume of the mash that was just in
2) there are calculations out there for % of grain vs gallon of water and how much volume that holds
3) figure out if their latest mash was to dry or two wet

then buy the flowmeter, install it, and figure out roughly the GPM that will give themselves the "proper consistancy". for me, I use 11 gpm. By recording when you start and when you finish you will get the gallons you just put in (granted it might be off by 1-3%). This way you are able to figure out your totals by simple math.

Or got can get a totalizer and spend $400-$600 more for a totalizer that can handle the high temps (170 degree sparge). Oh, and remember the batteries that die at the inopportune times. Or the moving parts that can sometimes get stuck....

Sure endless bank role=totalizer with a flowmeter function.
For brewers on a 7 bbl or 15 bbl system--all you need is a flowmeter on a spring that is accurate....

for giggles, before I wrote this email I went up and filled up 5 gallon bucket in 31 seconds. My flow meter was set at 9.9 gpm.....

[Ted Briggs]

you can also try GW kent

[gitchegumee]

There is very little difference between a totalizer and a flow rate meter. Any decent digital instrument will do both. Each are important, but I will chime in with the total vs. flow rate camp. Again, there's no reason why you couldn't do both with a decent instrument. Be sure it's rated to sparge temperatures (for me at least 180F). And double/triple check the calibration once it's properly installed. And put in on your PMs to do biyearly. This may be done easily by filling your mash mixer/tun to beyond any volume abnormalities (like dished bottoms, screens and manways), and use a simple volume calculation with the most volume you can tune it to. This assures best accuracy. It's necessary for repeatable batching and consistent beers. Using a stick in a single infusion for different grains and liquor to grist ratios doesn't work. Do it right the first time. Buy a good flow rate meter/totalizer and make sure it will handle 180F minimum. And then rest peacefully at night knowing you've done due diligence.

[monkeybrewer]

curious...

why wouldn't a stick work for a single infusion mash with different grain bills?
X amount of water coming out of hot liquor tank for mash in compared to total grain in grain bill equals liquor to grist ratio. You can find your flow rate by measuring volume out of HLT per time. you just have to have a trustworthy stick for measuring. For pub brewing (7 to 15 bbl's) I can't see why one would need a flow meter (i got rid of mine after it failed and the brew proceeds as it always has)
Cheers

[gitchegumee]

For a pub situation, a stick or carefully calibrated eyeball might do the job. Especially when your customers expect some degree of variation between batches of the same beers and you don't want or need precise control. I wouldn't operate without a flow meter to know when I have my grist/liquor at a known ratio; what my rate is for runoff timing; and as well as when I have added my last liter of sparge water. Bought my last one for $285 plus $60 for digital readout. I get rate and total with precision through 100C and from 3.5 l/min to 50 l/min. Check out Proteus 6008ST. Even comes with an itegrated 3-wire RTD to precisely measure your strike temperature. For this kind of money, there's no reason to employ a stick.